Legal

rawidman

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My boat has a manual head that's plumbed directly to a holding tank. From the holding tank, there are two outlets, one to a deck fitting and one to a macerator and then overboard. The macerator was controlled by a push button switch at the helm. That's how the boat was built and how it stayed for eight years. I bought it about six months ago.

That's not really legal and is why I have not had a safety inspection. I picked up a key operated on/off ignition switch at a well known marine retailer yesterday and installed it in place of the push button switch.

That should make the boat legal as long as I don't leave the key in the switch, right?
 
See sticky above, "U.S. Coast Guard Fact Sheet #13." In the text, under the heading, "Discharge of Raw Sewage," it tells you what is considered to be legal. This document was issued by the Coast Guard in 1994, and is currently out of print. However, there's a host of good information there, so I've continued to "keep it alive." To be in compliance, it's simply a matter of turning the seacock at the discharge through-hull fitting to the "off" position, then removing the handle from it. Other methods are also listed, but that one doesn't cost you any money. You're simply using what's already there.

The basic idea is that you must have to go through a little bit of work to either restore, or to stop, the ability to discharge waste overboard. They don't want a situation where, if you see you're about to be boarded by a compliance officer, you can simply reach down a hatch and move the seacock to the "correct" position. It must take a little more time and effort than that.

While the key switch may be acceptable to some boarding officers, the discharge seacock is what is mentioned in the regulations, and to be in absolute compliance, that's where you should apply your efforts.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Vic Willman

See sticky above, "U.S. Coast Guard Fact Sheet #13." In the text, under the heading, "Discharge of Raw Sewage," it tells you what is considered to be legal. This document was issued by the Coast Guard in 1994, and is currently out of print. However, there's a host of good information there, so I've continued to "keep it alive." To be in compliance, it's simply a matter of turning the seacock at the discharge through-hull fitting to the "off" position, then removing the handle from it. Other methods are also listed, but that one doesn't cost you any money. You're simply using what's already there.

The basic idea is that you must have to go through a little bit of work to either restore, or to stop, the ability to discharge waste overboard. They don't want a situation where, if you see you're about to be boarded by a compliance officer, you can simply reach down a hatch and move the seacock to the "correct" position. It must take a little more time and effort than that.

While the key switch may be acceptable to some boarding officers, the discharge seacock is what is mentioned in the regulations, and to be in absolute compliance, that's where you should apply your efforts.





Only problem is - I don't have one, the discharge is above the waterline. I suppose I could install a valve in the line if they demanded it. I'm not far from the legal discharge area so I don't want to make it too difficult to switch back and forth. (edit) Now that I've read the CG paper again, I see where locking the head door would suffice. I suppose you're right, it depends on who is checking.

A Purasan is in the near future.

The PO took the boat like it was up and down the US east coast ICW and to the Bahamas, apparently without a problem.
 
It's kinda like breaking the speed limit in your car; the only time it matters is when you get stopped...

It's kind of unusual to have the discharge through-hull above the waterline. I'm guessing that they'd accept your solution with the key switch - at least for the first time. It's certainly better than just having a manual switch for the macerator pump. They probably wouldn't write you up if they didn't like it; just give you a warning.
 
However if you had a portable honda generator on the swim platform???? you'd be taken away in cuffs.. :)
 
Darrell, that's pretty commonly done - have you run into a problem in the past? Generally, it isn't a problem unless you run the generator while you're sleeping - then you're taking a chance of carbon monoxide poisoning.
 
exact text from a USCG site:

"operator must secure the device in a manner which prevents any discharge. Some acceptable methods are: padlocking overboard discharge valves in the closed position, using non releasable wire tie to hold overboard discharge valves in the closed position, closing overboard discharge valves and removing the handle, locking the door, with padlock or keylock, to the space enclosing the toilets (for Type I and Type II only). "

I think "some accetable methods" indicates these are not the only ways. i dont' think any officer would issue a warnign or fine for a key switch.

my previous boat also had above WL discharge on the macerator (which i prefer, one less seacock to worry about) with TWO spring loaded rocker switches that had to be held down. That was the factory set up (maxum) I assume it was legal (although i was never boarded)

seems to me that the intent is to prevent accidental discharge, not hiding from the law.
 
I had the same double rocker switch setup on my Maxumm and never had an issue in New England when boarded or inspected. My 97 Carver 355 MY has above waterline discharge for both bathrooms and overboard discharge is controlled by key switches (one for each tank). Again no problem with yearly inspection. I keep the keys approximately 5' away from the switch in another compartment.
 
quote:

Originally posted by PascalG

...........

I think "some accetable methods" indicates these are not the only ways. i dont' think any officer would issue a warnign or fine for a key switch.
...................

seems to me that the intent is to prevent accidental discharge, not hiding from the law.






Anyone intent on dumping sewage from a pleasure boat overboard can do it and will probably not get caught. On the other hand, we don't want the Queen Mary II emptying it's holding tanks in our harbors.

I plan on having a courtesy inspection with the switch installed (but the key not on the boat) and I'll see how it goes.

BTW: Isn't it odd that it's legal to urinate or defecate directly into the water but not if you put in a container first?
 
The 1994 guidance Vic mentions is pretty generic. While it offers some acceptable solutions, it does NOT rule out others. Others like a double-rocker switch hidden below the helm. The boat MFGr's lawyers decided that this fits the bill. I'm not a lawyer, so I can't opine on that.

There's a lot of misinformation among CG Aux and PS vessel examiners. Their job aids all talk about a Y valve, and so they're always looking for the Y valve to see if the handle is locked. Most newer boats don't have a Y valve, and it's hit or miss with the individual inspector on what their interpretation of that page is.

In the old days, you wanted to make darn sure that Y valve was the right way, or you'd pump directly overboard from the head. Especially if you have guests who don't know how to work it, and the valve is right there.

Is the separate macerator discharge legal? How about if it has two hidden switches to prevent accidental activation? How about if it has a locking switch to prevent sneaky operation?

The answer is: No-one knows. Until the courts rule on this, any solution not spelled out in that guidance is pure speculation.
 
quote:

Originally posted by CaptTom

............................
The answer is: No-one knows. Until the courts rule on this, any solution not spelled out in that guidance is pure speculation.





We would have to see the actual wording of the law(s) regulating overboard discharge. Then we should be able to determine exactly what is required. But then again, we might not be able to determine what is required. It would then take a ticket and a court case to know.

Anyone have a link to the law?
 
Good point.

There are two major bodies of law governing the discharge of sewage by recreational vessels.

1) 40 CFR 140
http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title40/40-22.0.1.1.2.0.1.1.html

2) Clean Water Act Section 312
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/33/1322.html

40 CFR 140 defines marine sanitation devices and sets standards for areas where untreated sewage may not be discharged.

Section 312 of the Clean Water Act gives the EPA the authority to designate a complete prohibition (aka "no-discharge zone") based on a request by a state, which must meet very specific guidelines.

The only place I've been able to identify the issue of "locking out" MSDs is in 40 C.F.R. § 140.3:

----- excerpt -----

Title 40: Protection of Environment
PART 140--MARINE SANITATION DEVICE STANDARD

§ 140.3 Standard.

(a) (1) In freshwater lakes, freshwater reservoirs or other freshwater impoundments whose inlets or outlets are such as to prevent the ingress or egress by vessel traffic subject to this regulation, or in rivers not capable of navigation by interstate vessel traffic subject to this regulation, marine sanitation devices certified by the U.S. Coast Guard (see 33 CFR part 159, published in 40 FR 4622, January 30, 1975), installed on all vessels shall be designed and operated to prevent the overboard discharge of sewage, treated or untreated, or of any waste derived from sewage. This shall not be construed to prohibit the carriage of Coast Guard-certified flow-through treatment devices which have been secured so as to prevent such discharges.

----- End of excerpt ------

Section 312 also prohibits states from adding regulations (such as locking out equipment):

----- excerpt -----

TITLE 33 > CHAPTER 26 > SUBCHAPTER III > § 1322

(f) Regulation by States or political subdivisions thereof; complete prohibition upon discharge of sewage
(1)
(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), after the effective date of the initial standards and regulations promulgated under this section, no State or political subdivision thereof shall adopt or enforce any statute or regulation of such State or political subdivision with respect to the design, manufacture, or installation or use of any marine sanitation device on any vessel subject to the provisions of this section.

(B) A State may adopt and enforce a statute or regulation with respect to the design, manufacture, or installation or use of any marine sanitation device on a houseboat, if such statute or regulation is more stringent than the standards and regulations promulgated under this section. For purposes of this paragraph, the term "houseboat" means a vessel which, for a period of time determined by the State in which the vessel is located, is used primarily as a residence and is not used primarily as a means of transportation.

----- end of excerpt -----

Full text:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/33/usc_sec_33_00001322----000-.html

To summarize:

The law allows us to carry MSDs which can discharge waste through areas that don't allow us to use them, if they are "secured".

There are standards and regulations (rules) which formalize this.

I'm still looking for those. Again, I'm no lawyer, but I'll bet that locking something with a key meets the definition of "secured".

updated 9/6/08:

That "guidance" issued by the Coast Guard on how to secure the type III MSD discharge is spelled out in 33 CFR 159 Subpart A §159.7(c):

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...&view=text&node=33:2.0.1.5.28.1.179.5&idno=33

" (c) When operating a vessel on a body of water where the discharge of untreated sewage is prohibited by the Environmental Protection Agency under 40 CFR 140.3, the operator must secure each Type III device in a manner which prevents discharge of sewage. Acceptable methods of securing the device include—

(1) Closing each valve leading to an overboard discharge and removing the handle;

(2) Padlocking each valve leading to an overboard discharge in the closed position; or

(3) Using a non-releasable wire-tie to hold each valve leading to an overboard discharge in the closed position."

Note the use of the word "include". This is a list of some acceptable methods, but it does not rule out others. I am still looking to see if there's any rulemaking on this, but in the end I wouldn't be surprised if it's left to the courts to interpret what it means to "secure" the MSD discharge. And I'd still bet on key switches being acceptably "secure".
 
I have a VacuFlush system that feeds a 45 gallon holding tank. The tank output feeds a Y valve one side goes to the deck pump out fitting (this is the position I leave it in) and the other side goes to a macerator pump that you need to go to the main DC panel and throw the DC breaker then you need to go back to the bathroom and insert and turn a key the gives the macerator power also I have to put the Y valve in the proper position and open the through hull fitting. I haven't had any problems with boardings with this set up not even a raised eyebrow. The through hull is always kept closed and the macerator key is in another room hanging by the Main breaker panel in the salon.
Regards Bill
 
The system on my boat is a separate outlet from the holding tank into the macerator and then directly out the side of the boat. This is on a 1996 Bayliner. To activate the system yo have to push two switches at once. This is the original installation. The only thing that saved me from a citation fro mthe Coast Guard was having the manual on board that showed it was a factory installation and my promise to find another way to secure the over board discharge.
 
Vic, I too thought it was unusual to see holding tank discharges above the water line. We have several Rinkers at our club that came from the factory that way. Ugh!
 
quote:

Originally posted by Gregory Saracco

Vic, I too thought it was unusual to see holding tank discharges above the water line. We have several Rinkers at our club that came from the factory that way. Ugh!






Well, it does simplify the plumbing - no vented loop, etc.
 
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