That's a USA thing. It was (can't speak to today beyond Yachtworld) not uncommon in Europe to see diesel in 25 footers and up. Go fasts with diesels. My boat with diesels was equally common. The fuel costs were that high and the price differential was that huge.
Maintenance Cost Diesel vs Gas
- Thread starter walterv
- Start date
That's a USA thing. It was (can't speak to today beyond Yachtworld) not uncommon in Europe to see diesel in 25 footers and up. Go fasts with diesels. My boat with diesels was equally common. The fuel costs were that high and the price differential was that huge.
"That's a USA thing. It was (can't speak to today beyond Yachtworld) not uncommon in Europe to see diesel in 25 footers and up. Go fasts with diesels. My boat with diesels was equally common. The fuel costs were that high and the price differential was that huge."
Absolutely true as we see a lot of diesel conversions in the Europe members on the Bayliner site. Converting gas to diesel due to the large cost of fuel and the budget choices it make happen.
Equally surprising to me was when we docked this past weekend next to a 1 year old 34' Pursuit with twin 350 Yamaha 4 strokes which had a diesel genset with a separate 25 gallon tank. I would never have predicted that combination at all.
Absolutely true as we see a lot of diesel conversions in the Europe members on the Bayliner site. Converting gas to diesel due to the large cost of fuel and the budget choices it make happen.
Equally surprising to me was when we docked this past weekend next to a 1 year old 34' Pursuit with twin 350 Yamaha 4 strokes which had a diesel genset with a separate 25 gallon tank. I would never have predicted that combination at all.
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Perhaps I missed it but what I'm not seeing is the cost difference in buying a boat with gas vs, diesel. Certainly this is a huge number in a new vessel and should be calculated in the comparison numbers. That alone, you would have to own the boat for many years and put tons of hours on to breaks even on cost savings
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Bob Said:
I don't disagree with cost difference, but one thing is for certain, your not pushing the 45 around with gasers.
Agree 100%
Mike Said:
quote:
________________________________________
Originally posted by CurrentSea
The thread was not about pods or their maintenance over shafts.
It was about diesel vs gas maintenance.
And I am saying the extra diesel maintenance cost is offset with he fuel savings.
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Not unless you put 100's or 1000's of hours on the engines every year.
Agree 100 %
Hank Said:
Perhaps I missed it but what I'm not seeing is the cost difference in buying a boat with gas vs, diesel. Certainly this is a huge number in a new vessel and should be calculated in the comparison numbers. That alone, you would have to own the boat for many years and put tons of hours on to breaks even on cost savings
.
Agree 100 %
But, as Bob mentioned, you do get to a point (like my boat and your boat) you don’t have a choice. As far as resale diesel vs gas, well that all depends, if the boat (size and weight) should have a diesel and has gas, then yes, huge difference. Generally speaking, diesel should be a tad more when comparing the same boat and model, but certainly not close to what the premium was to go from gas to diesel when bought brand new.
What will also reflect the resale value on gas vs diesel is the region of the country where the used boat is being sold. In other words, we have my 34/36C being sold in the northeast, short season; gas motors are more than adequate for this boat. If looking at two identical boats, and all else is equal other than diesel vs gas, if the diesel is that much more money, the gas will win (be bought). That drives the resale value of diesel in the northeast down.
Now the same scenario in Florida, or a place where they don't have a short season, this would be the total opposite. As a matter of fact, in those areas, it would be hard to sell a gasser.
I did not bring this up because that was not the purpose of this post, the purpose was to just clarify that YES, diesel motors cost more to maintain!
Just my 2C
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I don't disagree with cost difference, but one thing is for certain, your not pushing the 45 around with gasers.
Agree 100%
Mike Said:
quote:
________________________________________
Originally posted by CurrentSea
The thread was not about pods or their maintenance over shafts.
It was about diesel vs gas maintenance.
And I am saying the extra diesel maintenance cost is offset with he fuel savings.
________________________________________
Not unless you put 100's or 1000's of hours on the engines every year.
Agree 100 %
Hank Said:
Perhaps I missed it but what I'm not seeing is the cost difference in buying a boat with gas vs, diesel. Certainly this is a huge number in a new vessel and should be calculated in the comparison numbers. That alone, you would have to own the boat for many years and put tons of hours on to breaks even on cost savings
.
Agree 100 %
But, as Bob mentioned, you do get to a point (like my boat and your boat) you don’t have a choice. As far as resale diesel vs gas, well that all depends, if the boat (size and weight) should have a diesel and has gas, then yes, huge difference. Generally speaking, diesel should be a tad more when comparing the same boat and model, but certainly not close to what the premium was to go from gas to diesel when bought brand new.
What will also reflect the resale value on gas vs diesel is the region of the country where the used boat is being sold. In other words, we have my 34/36C being sold in the northeast, short season; gas motors are more than adequate for this boat. If looking at two identical boats, and all else is equal other than diesel vs gas, if the diesel is that much more money, the gas will win (be bought). That drives the resale value of diesel in the northeast down.
Now the same scenario in Florida, or a place where they don't have a short season, this would be the total opposite. As a matter of fact, in those areas, it would be hard to sell a gasser.
I did not bring this up because that was not the purpose of this post, the purpose was to just clarify that YES, diesel motors cost more to maintain!
Just my 2C
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My sailboat with 22 HP used so little diesel it wasn't worth measuring. If I remember correctly it burned about .6 GPH bur with 80 gal tanks it was hard to measure. Maintenance costs were not memorable. It was in SF so there was no seasonal maintenance. I changed oil and filters when I felt guilty. The same fuel was in the tanks for years and never went bad in any way I could tell. Never added stabilizers or any additives. If I went away for a few months I just turned it off and started it up when I got back. The most simple, reliable engine I have ever known.
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Based on my post above and thinking about this thread I have come to this conclusion:
Technology gains in outboards, inboard and diesels has been extraordinary.
Given my own needs and lifestyle.....
I would choose diesel for an inboard boat, or move to something smaller (not in my lifetime) with outboards.
We are seeing outboards of greater and greater horsepower. Grady White even builds a 33' express with twin 350 horse Yamahas.
How about one of those with a diesel genny?
RWS
Technology gains in outboards, inboard and diesels has been extraordinary.
Given my own needs and lifestyle.....
I would choose diesel for an inboard boat, or move to something smaller (not in my lifetime) with outboards.
We are seeing outboards of greater and greater horsepower. Grady White even builds a 33' express with twin 350 horse Yamahas.
How about one of those with a diesel genny?
RWS
Yep. Sold my 30' Bayliner to a fellow in Norway, first thing he did was install a Steyr diesel engine. Compared to the 454 gasser it replaced, fuel consumption was halved and cruise speed increased by 4 mph. All with 2 less cylinders and 70 less horsepower.
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I just ordered all new hoses and clamps for mine and they were only $500. I just placed the order an hour ago hope to have everything next week. Do you think the a gas closed loop system would be all that much less? Maybe a little but I don't think it would be a huge difference. Bottom line is if you want a big boat then you are going to want diesel and if you want a boat of any kind you better be prepared to break out your wallet to maintain it.
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Walt what is the insurance discount for diesel powered boats vs. gas powered boats? We are paying 4K a year for our boat in Florida/Bahamas. If it was a gasser it would be higher. I think about 5% higher but I have not researched this.
Then there is peace of mind. Gassers blow up more than diesels. Priceless no?
We run Vintage Detroit 6-71TIs in Freedom. Yes, we use more oil for changes and filters are more expensive. There are more zincs but I consider that a deficiency in gassers of the same HP rating. Racor filters are probably more expensive but they should be on gassers as well IMHO. Impellers are a wash since they all have to be changed.
Walker AirSeps are a steep upgrade. So what. They get replaced every 10 years if you take care of them.
Yes, a larger boat is more expensive to maintain. Oh well. If you want to run with the big dogs it's gonna be a diesel.
If you want to compare a 44/48 trawler with Lemans to a gasser at the same power level I think you might be in left field. Smaller generic diesels are not as greedy as the high HP Volvos which are historically more expensive to maintain.
Then there is peace of mind. Gassers blow up more than diesels. Priceless no?
We run Vintage Detroit 6-71TIs in Freedom. Yes, we use more oil for changes and filters are more expensive. There are more zincs but I consider that a deficiency in gassers of the same HP rating. Racor filters are probably more expensive but they should be on gassers as well IMHO. Impellers are a wash since they all have to be changed.
Walker AirSeps are a steep upgrade. So what. They get replaced every 10 years if you take care of them.
Yes, a larger boat is more expensive to maintain. Oh well. If you want to run with the big dogs it's gonna be a diesel.
If you want to compare a 44/48 trawler with Lemans to a gasser at the same power level I think you might be in left field. Smaller generic diesels are not as greedy as the high HP Volvos which are historically more expensive to maintain.
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$4000 a year for insurance?
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Yes Allen, actually around 3300 though I just checked. If you keep your boat below Jacksonville year round on the shore, you will pay. The Bahamas is not a significant contributor. We have not had a claim (since the idiot ran us over on Great South Bay in '99 and it was his claim) BoatUS has us in a decent rate. If it wasn't for that we'd be well over 5K/yr.
If we move the boat above Jacksonville for the Hseason we get a good reduction but the cost of fuel more than offsets that gain.
If we move the boat above Jacksonville for the Hseason we get a good reduction but the cost of fuel more than offsets that gain.
Heres a Chris Craft Commander, no engines. Seller said shafts, props and tranny's from gas engines are in place. What would a guestimate be to install diesels ?
My experience from the collector car arena is that it usually cheaper to buy something decent that to try and take a junker and overspend fixing it.
Diesels are expensive to buy and install.
Ebay link for the engineless Chris . . . .http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/42ft-Chris-Craft-Commander-1968-/191384358170?pt=Power_Motorboats&hash=item2c8f658d1a&vxp=mtr
My experience from the collector car arena is that it usually cheaper to buy something decent that to try and take a junker and overspend fixing it.
Diesels are expensive to buy and install.
Ebay link for the engineless Chris . . . .http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/42ft-Chris-Craft-Commander-1968-/191384358170?pt=Power_Motorboats&hash=item2c8f658d1a&vxp=mtr
That Chris while it sounds nice it's still a 1968 boat making it how old? 46 years old. I think 40 to 60k might be conservative costs for the diesels alone not including a generator or any installation components.
I'd pass unless the marina will allow it to be docked without engines and the use would be what it can be for an engine less boat in the middle of a re-power.
I think you'll see the boat advertised on BoatAngel for $5k plus what's owed to the marina if anything.
Bill
I'd pass unless the marina will allow it to be docked without engines and the use would be what it can be for an engine less boat in the middle of a re-power.
I think you'll see the boat advertised on BoatAngel for $5k plus what's owed to the marina if anything.
Bill
Hey Dan,
I don't know the cost difference for insurance. You did bring up a good point though, this is a much larger boat than my 34/36C, so my comparisons may be a bit flawed. There is a member here that has the same boat I had but had little diesels in it, his name is Luis, maybe he will chime in.
I don't know the cost difference for insurance. You did bring up a good point though, this is a much larger boat than my 34/36C, so my comparisons may be a bit flawed. There is a member here that has the same boat I had but had little diesels in it, his name is Luis, maybe he will chime in.
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Still worth boating year round though!