Multifunction Displays

quote:
Originally posted by eahearn

I think there are some good points to a computer-based system, including non-proprietary architecture and the resultant low cost of components, but I have had to re-boot my work laptop and my iphone every once in a while and I haven't had to reboot my MFD, yet. This would be a serious concern for, as Pascal put it, mission-critical systems.

- Ed

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It really depends... Underway I don't use my notebook for anything else but the nav software and the webcam and it has never crashed. On the other hand the furunos sometimes freeze or reboot, on average once every 10 hours
 
quote:
Originally posted by Billylll

I have found the FLIR to be much better then conventional radar in pea soup close in fog. Now broadband radar maybe a different story. Garmin currently only has HD radar which I can dedicate to the plotter/display as needed with or without overlay. I can split screen the FLIR with the radar on the 12 inch display. MFD's depending on size can handle up to 4 screens at one time or overlay and they are very basic to set up.
Bill

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I really can't agree with this. FLIR will give you better detail ahead of the boat and may supplement radar but it will not give you the big picture of traffic around your vessel. In dense fog I want to know if some idiot is coming on my beam at 20 knots or I want to anticipate the tracks of large commercial traffic FLIR will not help you one bit... Frankly if there is a stationery echo 1/4 mile off my bow, I dont care to know if it s a piling, mooring, or small fishing boat, I just want to steer clear.

Split screens result in data being too small, I want my radar full screen with as much detail as possible, not crowded with FLIR or overlaid chart.

And before anyone asks what a guy from Miami knows about fog (my own boat doesn't even have a radar!) I ve spent a lot of time running in new england pea soup over the past few years incl busy areas like Vineyard sound, NYC, Newport, etc... Where traffic will make your head spin!

The stretch from the vineyard into woods hole and buzz bay with all the ferries and fishing boats with near 0 vis can be very interesting!! That s exactly when I want my radar full screen uncluttered and not overlaid so I can quickly adjust range to see which way the fast echoes are going as well as smaller close range targets
 
quote:
Originally posted by seeray96

Looks like Raymarine and Garmin are both introducing some interesting products. I've been using Raymarine for years, but maybe it's time to look around. Any comments?

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Can't comment on those, but I have a Furuno MFD-12 and like it. The interface is enough different from our previous Raymarine products that it took some learning change my habits, but it's not difficult.

I'm one who usually prefers NOT touch screens, or touch screens only if there's a standard button/knob interface, too.

-Chris
 
Pascal where did I say I didn't use radar in addition to my radar I use the FLIR? The FLIR in normal mode gives you about 120 degrees field of view which really helps identify targets off both sides and the center of the bow of the boat. If you have never used one don't knock it. Again I repeat it is used to supplement the radar. The 7" Garmin 740S has unreal definition when used as a plotter when I split the radar/FLIR on my Garmin 6212 or switch back and forth between radar full screen modes. Also the radio does automatic fog hailing based on little input from the user. I use my 2nd Garmin VHF200 radio for communications which is also on the NMEA2000 backbone.
Bill
 
I have a full suite of garmin products. 4212/3210/gsd22/ap/24hd radar/wx/etc. At best, I'd give it a B- grade overall. The chartplotter is good, but brain dead. The sounder is barely adequate. Radar is somewhere in between. The AP is a bright spot.

I'm seriously considering throwing half of it off the boat and getting a Simrad NSE12 to replace the 3210, and a 4G radar to replace the 24hd radar. Don't know what I'll do with the sounder yet.

The Garmin gear is really entry level, despite its price. You get a lot of easy to use features that can't be customized and don't hold up to serious use. It's kind of like the joke that you can have any color you want as long as its black.

It's American made, but it isn't best in class by any means.
 
"Pascal where did I say I didn't use radar in addition to my radar I use the FLIR? The FLIR in normal mode gives you about 120 degrees field of view which really helps identify targets off both sides and the center of the bow of the boat. If you have never used one don't knock it"

Where did I say you didn't use the radar in addition to FLIR? Never said that, never implied it.

I just wanted to make sure that "I have found the FLIR to be much better then conventional radar in pea soup close in fog." would not be interpreted by some as FLIR bring a possible replacement to radar. Again, when running in dense fog, radar should be your primary focus.
 
quote:
Originally posted by gerg

I have a full suite of garmin products. 4212/3210/gsd22/ap/24hd radar/wx/etc. At best, I'd give it a B- grade overall. The chartplotter is good, but brain dead. The sounder is barely adequate. Radar is somewhere in between. The AP is a bright spot.

I'm seriously considering throwing half of it off the boat and getting a Simrad NSE12 to replace the 3210, and a 4G radar to replace the 24hd radar. Don't know what I'll do with the sounder yet.

The Garmin gear is really entry level, despite its price. You get a lot of easy to use features that can't be customized and don't hold up to serious use. It's kind of like the joke that you can have any color you want as long as its black.

It's American made, but it isn't best in class by any means.

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The problem I see with your current configuration is the 3210 and the GSD22 I replaced my 3210 a few years ago with the 4210 and the GSD22 is getting replaced with the GSD26 in the spring. You have no real interoperability between the 4210 which is an MFD and the 3210 which is a NMEA0183 & Garmin network only device (no NMEA2000). The only thing I don't like about the 4000/5000 MFD's is the processing screens can be a bit slow when you have a large NMEA2000 network that is why I upgraded to the 6212 as my main MFD. I still have a 4210 in the Salon comm center.
The 6200 and 7200 series MFD's are true high end MFD's having NMEA2000 from the GPS to the MFD's and most periferalls is importent to how simple the network is to operate and be reliable. I'm with you on the SIMRAD Broadband Radar (really fantastic performance) I think it's a short period of time before Garmin comes out with a broadband radar unit. I think it is a matter of coming up with or purchasing the rights to Simrads 4G broadband radar unit.
Garmin 7000 MFD's were chosen by the American's Cup support vessels if it's good enough for them I don't know what else to say other than it works well for me. The 6212 is the same as the 7212 but the only difference is it doesn't have a touch screen. I like buttons even though my 740S is a touch screen small MFD.
Bill
 
quote:
Originally posted by Billylll

quote:
Originally posted by gerg

I have a full suite of garmin products. 4212/3210/gsd22/ap/24hd radar/wx/etc. At best, I'd give it a B- grade overall. The chartplotter is good, but brain dead. The sounder is barely adequate. Radar is somewhere in between. The AP is a bright spot.

I'm seriously considering throwing half of it off the boat and getting a Simrad NSE12 to replace the 3210, and a 4G radar to replace the 24hd radar. Don't know what I'll do with the sounder yet.

The Garmin gear is really entry level, despite its price. You get a lot of easy to use features that can't be customized and don't hold up to serious use. It's kind of like the joke that you can have any color you want as long as its black.

It's American made, but it isn't best in class by any means.

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The problem I see with your current configuration is the 3210 and the GSD22 I replaced my 3210 a few years ago with the 4210 and the GSD22 is getting replaced with the GSD26 in the spring. You have no real interoperability between the 4210 which is an MFD and the 3210 which is a NMEA0183 & Garmin network only device (no NMEA2000). The only thing I don't like about the 4000/5000 MFD's is the processing screens can be a bit slow when you have a large NMEA2000 network that is why I upgraded to the 6212 as my main MFD. I still have a 4210 in the Salon comm center.
The 6200 and 7200 series MFD's are true high end MFD's having NMEA2000 from the GPS to the MFD's and most periferalls is importent to how simple the network is to operate and be reliable. I'm with you on the SIMRAD Broadband Radar (really fantastic performance) I think it's a short period of time before Garmin comes out with a broadband radar unit. I think it is a matter of coming up with or purchasing the rights to Simrads 4G broadband radar unit.
Garmin 7000 MFD's were chosen by the American's Cup support vessels if it's good enough for them I don't know what else to say other than it works well for me. The 6212 is the same as the 7212 but the only difference is it doesn't have a touch screen. I like buttons even though my 740S is a touch screen small MFD.
Bill

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The 3210 is just a second display I use either for dedicated radar while running or sounder while fishing, depending on weather. It allows me to leave the 4212 for full screen chartplotting. I don't lose a lot by using the 3210 for that. I don't need to share navionics between the mfd's.

The gsd22 is a pos. It is destined for the scrap heap. I just haven't settled on CHIRP yet. Look at it this way, the GSD21 was supposed to be the working version of the GSD20, and the GSD22 was supposed to fix what didn't work in the 21. What makes anyone think they got it right on the 24? It looks promising, but frankly I'll probably just switch to Simrad, who has it working already.

As for the 6xxx/7xxx, I don't share your passion. It uses the same OS as the 4xxx/5xxx. The limits are the same. They are faster, and maybe sharper, but you still can't fdisplay AIS and radar overlay at the same time. You still can't overlay either radar or weather on the fishing charts - only the basic nav chart.

And, Garmin cartography is a dim candle compared to Navionics or even C-Map.

Sorry, the 6xxx/7xxx are just a new generation of the same poor software on the 4xxx/6xxx.
 
quote:
Originally posted by gerg
As for the 6xxx/7xxx, I don't share your passion. It uses the same OS as the 4xxx/5xxx. The limits are the same. They are faster, and maybe sharper, but you still can't fdisplay AIS and radar overlay at the same time. You still can't overlay either radar or weather on the fishing charts - only the basic nav chart.

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I'm with Billy on this one. I think I'll be a Garmin fan forever. I've been using them since 1998, and I've never seen a Garmin device that IMO didn't beat all of the competition in user-friendliness.

I don't fish from my boat, so I can't speak the the overlay issue on the fishing charts, but AIS on the RADAR screen IS an option. Are you saying the feature doesn't work, or you don't see the feature at all? Is your software rev. current?

Billy, my GMR24HD is attached to the plotter with an RJ45 cable like yours was (and I did hear about the issues with the early ones, but it was addressed by the time I got mine), but my radar DOES communicate on the NMEA2000 network. It also appears on the list of NMEA2k devices on my network.
 
Sorry Gerg - I read that wrong. You said overlay and AIS. I was thinking just radar.
 
Greg there is nothing wrong with my GSD22 I like cutting edge electronics. However the GSD26 is still on the GARMIN network as the backbone. I can say I saw a huge improvement when using the 6212 over my old 4212. As for AIS targets they overlay on both the standard charts and my SD Garmin Bluecharts. I am a big fan of AIS transponders although I use a Navico NAIS300L Class B transponder. All plotters recieve the AIS data and I am very sure on the radar overlay screen. However I will have to differ to when I put the boat back in the water. Again as for performance the 6212 appears to blow away the 4212 it replaced. Perhaps because I have the NMEA2000 and Garmin backbone that is why it works where I select it to work by default? There was a self alarming problem with AIS transponders where your own boat was identified as a potential threat but that was fixed with a software revision over 2 years ago. You simply enter your MMSI under the AIS tab. My units seem to work better and better with each software release. I really have no complaints other then the lack of a 4G digital radar unit that will interface with Garmin. I simply love the stuff and I have tried most plotters since the 3210 was released I even used the lower end 545 and 3205 & 6 plotters and found them to be easy to use in a networked environment. My Sons 22 MAKO uses a Garmin 740s, VHF200, GPS17HD, Maretron position sensor, Navonics AIS Class B transponder, a NMEA2000 fuel monitor, tank levels sensor, and built in fish finder depth sensor and the radio integrates with the 740S. It's a serious little set up that I would use even piloting a much larger vessel in a heartbeat. It's a breeze and he loves the setup.
Bill
 
This information shows the differences between the 4212 vs the 6212 it has considerably more memory look at the routes 20 vs 100 and tracklogs 10,000 vs 50,000 more memory ends up equating to more speed depending on the amount of data you save. Waypoints/favorites/locations: 1,500(4212) 5,000 (6212).
Bill
 
Wow, I though that truth site had cheerleaders. ;)

First, my point isn't that you can't overlay ais on a nav chart. You absolutely can and it works well.

What it won't do is overlay radar AND ais on the same chart. You have to choose. Same with weather. You can overlay one item, and only one item on the nav chart, but not the fishing chart.

That is limiting. Just like you can't choose which data boxes you want. You have to display what Garmin decides you need.

I don't doubt the 6212 is a better machine than the 4212. But it has nothing the NSE12 doesn't have, and the NSE12 has much more, and is cheaper to boot.

As for the gsd22, if you don't fish, it will work very well. I have no issues with it as a depthfinder. I have a 1kw ducer on it and it holds bottom well till about 1500 feet in not calm water. What it sucks at is showing returns on the bottom, or in the water column.

One pretty annoying feature of the gsd22 is that once it loses bottom, it won't show any returns. It hunts for bottom and won't show midwater fish. I don't really care what's on the bottom in 2000 feet of water, but I do care what is at 100 or 200 feet and I can't see that. Raymarine, Furuno, and Simrad don't behave this way.

As for the 24HD, when the water gets choppy and rough, the main bang area is huge. It blacks out the entire inner ring of whatever range scale you choose and then some. I can tune the sea clutter, but then I lose small targets. It is very frustrating to be blind in bad conditions. Other radars don't behave like that. In calm water, it runs well, but I need it when the weather is bad, not just when it's nice. Then there is the brain dead guard zone functionality (which is better on the 4212 than the 3210, but still doesn't hold a candle to ray or furuno).

So Garmin is good as long as you don't demand a lot from it. The sounder is good as long as you don't fish, the radar is good as long as you only go out in calm weather.

Garmin is user friendly, as long as you want exactly what Garmin has decided to display. It has a lot of features, as long as you don't expect them to be very deep.

If you like it though, great. I'm not saying you are wrong. It just doesn't meet my needs. It falls far short.
 
I have always maintained Furuno if you have the wallet is pretty much the top of the line, then again I'm talking the latest stuff not comparing apples to oranges. I do admit and make no bones about it I am a die in the wool Garmin MFD and device fan. I am biased against Simrad and Lowrence because of a single service issue and their throw away mentality told to me by their top engineers when I escalated questions about an LVR-880 NMEA2000 VHF radio. I think the Garmin GDS26 will be a very nice addition for my occasional fishing trips. Garmins open array radar works very well but again I'm not an offshore sport fishing machine but a coastal, inland river and ICW cruiser at heart. I do know 1st hand that the Delaware Bay can turn into the Ocean off of Cape May and traveling north to the C&D to the Chesapeake. I have taken Wireless One from Tuckerton to Philadelphia which is basically from Atlantic City to the Cape May Canal up to the Philadelphia area actually to the Rancocas Creek. I pick my weather and always have plans (they are limited ) in the southern Deleware Bay. If I wake up and it is pea soup I'm not moving. I have no reason to not wait out for a better weather window. As far as weather I have been from the seperate Garmin original network reciever which I removed and replaced with the GXM-51 SIRIUS NMEA2000 reciever and now added the latest pay by the day Garmin GDL-40 weather reciever that uses AT&T to deliver weather over the NMEA2000 network. Why? Because I like to play with all of Garmins latest products. However I can overlay that radar on one of the other MFDs. Maybe I'm missing the point but unless you have 2 MFD's why would you expect to be able to do every possible combination? Having the ability to have 2 MFD's and a NMEA2000 display (GMI-10) at the helm in my opinion beats 1 MFD and another plotter that is used as a stand alone radar display only doen't make sense.
Am I biased for Garmin? Yes it and the upgrades have made sense and are very intuative. The HxLL TrXXh board backs what I am saying so does Panbo on most but Garmins limited 4G radar unless you have room for a full sized open array which I have no need for.
Unless you are a tournament grade fisherman I don't see anything wrong with the Garmin lineup I use.
I can only report experiences as they relate to my travels in my boat. What works for me and why is all I am trying to do. I'm sure it looks like Garmin pays me a comission but I can assure you they do not this is my honest opinion based on equipment I own and have installed in my vessel.
Bill
 
When you say you can't overlay AIS and radar on the same chart I'm missing something I believe I can chose radar overlay, AIS overlay or both on a chart. I will double check I do not think you can on the 3210 though that I can't check my once pair of 3210's are long gone in fact all my 3200 series plotters are in other boats in my Marina.
Speaking of Raymarine other then their recent MFD's I thought they wouldn't do NMEA2000 but Can Buss? Again I'm no Raymarine expert I have very little experience with Raymarine I just know the guy's that do Canyon fishing tap on the side of my boat and ask for me to bring up the weather and bouy information before they decide to leave in questionable conditions. I have not had good luck going in dry and figuring out other boats in my marina Raymarine MFD's but I admit I have little experiance certainly none other then thier VHF radios that I once had in my boat. They also had a one shot MMSI try or it had to go back to the factory. I had installed a Raymarine 240 with dual handsets and amplified speakers my 2 seperate Garmin VHF200's and wired remote mike (GHS-10) blows it away for performance and true redundency. In fact if anyone wants a Raymarine 240 I have full set up with 2 control heads and amplified speakers I would almost give away, the MMSI needs factory reprogramming.
Bill
 
When it comes to radar, the one feature I want over any overlay, AIS, etc is tracks/trails. I find this to be the most useful practical feature I want to have when running in fog. For those of us living in the real world of limited budgets, I will spend more on A radar with tracks over e dry thing else

I usually set it to 3 minutes and with just one glance I can see which way all those targets are heading and how fast they Moving. So I know right away if the target on my 2 o clock and 1 NM is a slow moving sailboat or some high speed sportfish.

If I ever need to upgrade electronics, this will be the criteria at the top of my list.
 
Bill, the GSD26 is a CHIRP unit, and given the price tag (over $6k for unit and transducer), it would be WAYYYY overkill for the occasional fishing trip. CHIRP represents the absolute cutting edge in sounder technology, and no doubt the GSD26 will be one of the top rec units on the market.

But, realistically, the GSD24 is probably a better choice for you if all you do is occasionally fish. If it works as advertised, it should be as good as top of the line units on the market now. You should even be able to use your current gsd22 transducer.

But if if you have the cash, and like the bling, go for the 26. Just post some screenshots so the rest of us can drool.
 
I wanted to make a comment about the 4G radar I trust Ben at Panbo and we often share test results we both think the 4G is the bomb for close in radar but question it's ability on the open ocean for distant targets. I feel both radars would really be needed conventional radar and broadband if your really serious about offshore fishing. The Garmin HD units are "ok" and do have 2 speeds the faster speed is better for close in use because if refreshes 2X faster over Garmin conventional radars.
I will be happy to post screen shots once the Chirp unit and transponder are installed over the next 3 months.
Bill
 
Pascal my Garmin setup radar and AIS both will do tracks and trails. I agree must have features. For conventional radar nothing beats Furuno. For me the combination of the Garmin HD radar and FLIR are really overkill.
You have to be careful that you have the correct MFD from SIMRAD or you won't get all the features of the 4G antenna. Here is a link to SIMRAD and what is compatable with what.
http://www.simrad-yachting.com/Products/Marine-Radars/Broadband-Radar/
Bill
 
quote:
Originally posted by gerg

I have a full suite of garmin products. 4212/3210/gsd22/ap/24hd radar/wx/etc. At best, I'd give it a B- grade overall. The chartplotter is good, but brain dead. The sounder is barely adequate. Radar is somewhere in between. The AP is a bright spot.

I'm seriously considering throwing half of it off the boat and getting a Simrad NSE12 to replace the 3210, and a 4G radar to replace the 24hd radar. Don't know what I'll do with the sounder yet.

The Garmin gear is really entry level, despite its price. You get a lot of easy to use features that can't be customized and don't hold up to serious use. It's kind of like the joke that you can have any color you want as long as its black.

It's American made, but it isn't best in class by any means.

Click to expand...

When Garmin purchased the Autopilot system (I can't remember who the company was prior to the purchase) and integrated it into their line up you do have the best (my opinion) assuming you have the GHP-10. The key to this AP is that you don't need an external rudder interface actually no external input from the rudder is needed.
Bill
 
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