Need a lesson from the "Head Master"

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footloose

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Joined
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Footloose is redoing the black water system for the Harley - now known as SwampLizard II. Snce I am trying to avoid any large messes.....could use some advice:

"Swampy" has a raritan manual pump toilet with an electric motor that makes the handle go up and down. I completely rebuilt it with new valves and gaskets last summer.

Now it is time to change things up:

1) Replace existing 2 gallon shoe box black water tank with 25 gallon unit. New unit will be mounted in engine room since there is no room for a bigger tank where the old one is (Genny and fresh water tank in that space).
2) Lockable Y-valve is in cubby under head's sink and directs black water to tank or to thruhull.
3) There is NO macerator pump today - will be adding one when I add larger tank.

Questions:
1) Can someone post a diagram of what I need to know for layout and such?
2) Not sure where macerator goes.....on tank or elsewhere?
3) Hoses sizes recommended for in/out/vent
4) Vent charcoal thingy....where to buy and what size?
5)Any additional valves needed to handle elevation changes akeep things flowing the direction they need to go etc?

Thanks for any advice!

Footloose (Olivier)
 
quote:
Originally posted by footloose

Click to expand...


If you are going to be installing a macerator, why not invest in a head with a built in macerator? Much smaller diameter lines are needed.

Just a thought.

--Rick
 
after goind through numerous macerators from the waste tank to overboard discharge, I chose to replace mine with a vacu flush pump.

IMHO this does a far better job, is entirely reliable and still going strong after six seasons.

PLUS it doubles as a backup to my factory vacuflush pump should it choose to take a $hitt.

Damn

THAT was FUNNY !

RWS
 
Vent lines: Best is two 1 1/2" lines providing cross ventilation. If you can do that, and use Odorlos, you don't need a filter.
 
My head also has a Raritan manual toilet, as you describe. It is called a PH2. Mine has the motor driven gear box that pumps the handle.

My setup uses a 35 gallon black tank, a Y-valve, macerator, and deck pumpout fitting. The toilet has a 3/4" inlet for sea water.

The discharge side of the toilet is 1 1/2". In my setup the discharge from the toilet is directly connected to the inlet of the holding tank, using 1 1/2" sanitary hose. There are two vent hoses on my black tank. Both are 1" hoses, one to each side of the boat. They are connected to standard through hull fittings, just below the gunwales.

The discharge side of the black tank is a 1 1/2" fitting. It has about 2 feet of 1 1/2" sanitary hose connected to it, and leading to the common port of the Y-valve.

The Y-valve has 1 1/2" hose connections. One of the output legs of the Y-valve is connected to a macerator pump, using 1 1/2" sanitary hose.

The other leg has 1 1/2" sanitary hose going up to a deck fitting for pumping out dock side. I have the Y-valve pad locked in the position that leads to the deck pumpout.

The output of the macerator pump is connected to a through hull fitting using 1" sanitary hose.

With this setup the toilet always flushes to the holding tank. When it comes time to empty, it can be pumped out dockside from the deck fitting. The Y-valve can also be positioned toward the macerator, and the tank can be pumped overboard.

I suppose you could also put a Y-valve between the toilet discharge, and the holding tank. That would allow direct flushing overboard. Locking that valve in the position leading to the holding tank would be necessary.

I also have a tornado flusher installed on my holding tank. I use that whenever I pump out the holding tank. In addition, I could never get any of the biological type head treatments (odorlos, KO, etc.) to work. Maybe you should use 1 1/2" vent hoses, as the 1" hoses I used weren't adaquate.

I don't use the charcoal filter, so I can't comment.

Eric
 
Thanks all for the inputs - just what I needed. since my tank might be towards the rear of the engine room I will have a significant length run back to the Y valve....will have to check out what makes sense and if I should use PVC for the longer runs with sanitary hose at junctions. Good stuff folks! Merry Xmas
 
Buy this book:

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http://www.amazon.com/Get-Rid-Boat-...TF8&qid=1355330122&sr=8-1&keywords=peggy+hall

Study it before starting your project. All your answers and answers to questions you haven't thought of yet.
 
Peggy Hall is the authority on this stuff. I second Ron's suggestion.

A suggestion of my own would depend on what part of FL you're in but while your at it, why not install a Type I MSD for legal overboard discharge (outside of useless NDZ zones that is). Most of FL is not NDZ.
 
Forget a Y for overboard discharge you re never going to use it...

If you re going to out a macerator/over board discharge, get the sealand pump, not the POS jabsco or similar. They don't last

You don't need a y valve to select pump out fitting or macerator. Plumb the macerator to a fitting at the bottom of the tank. The pump out can be hooked up to another fitting at the bottom or to a dip tube they the top. Or you can just put a tee on the bottom fitting but put in a 1/4 turn valve to seal the tank in case you need to work on the pump or plumbing

As to charcoal filters, I don't like them... Try without and if the location of the vent causes odors to be smelled after a flush then you can always out one in

Personally i prefer the pump discharge to be just above waterline so you can see it, and that s one less seacock
 
Thanks everyone for your inputs!

I found a healthy head with macerator built in for decent price - this would do away with the mechanical pump nightmare I have today (and the silly electric motor to pump it) and possibly simplify my system over-all. Since I dont forsee needing to "walk the dog" much - (they do pumpouts at my primary gas station) - I think I will do the Y-valve at the tank with ball shut off per Pascal's recommendation.....I can always add a macerator to pump out tank later if needed. For now I will remove all the old hoses and simply shut off the throughhull. Again many thanks to ALL!
 
Well a quick Update on Swamplizard's plumbing - Father and I built a nice platform for the new 25 gallon tank to sit on and be strapped down to....paint is drying as we speak.

Removed all the old stinky hoses, yanked the old shoebox sized holding tank, pulled the old mechanical pump head and it is power washed and been soaking so I can craigslist it away. I found a n macerator head for cheap - did a rebuild of all valves etc just in case (didnt need it frankly) and she is ready to install this week.

Went with simple! - head to tank - tank to deck pumpout fitting - doubled up on vents. Ball valve for future pump out if needed.
 
System is working like a champ...but not sure what to use in it to control the black water odors etc. What do you guys use her ein warm sunny florida (yeck)

It is flushing with salt water so I find that if I flush the bowl nearly dry and put some fresh water in the bowl that it doesnt get funky in the head during the wek when I am not on the boat. Other hints?

Thanks Guys!
 
Practical Sailor magazine just reviewed head treatments and recommended buying a small spray bottle and spraying the head with Raritan CP when leaving the boat for a few days. CP won't hurt any of the good little guys in the tank either.
 
Flush it with fresh water. You will have to plumb it in and most likely the cold water line from the sink will work fine. Been there done that, makes a huge difference. However, depending on the bowl, it can use a lot of fresh water. If you are on the hook for an extended stay that could be an issue.
 
Saltwater maybe causing your ordor problems. I went with a freshwater head and a new larger tank over 5 years ago and I have had no odor problems. I also use Odorlos as a preventative for Odor control in the holding tank.
Bill
 
quote:
Originally posted by footloose

System is working like a champ...but not sure what to use in it to control the black water odors etc. What do you guys use her ein warm sunny florida (yeck)

It is flushing with salt water so I find that if I flush the bowl nearly dry and put some fresh water in the bowl that it doesnt get funky in the head during the wek when I am not on the boat. Other hints?

Thanks Guys!

Click to expand...


Put an inline strainer on the in coming raw water line to keep critters and other organic matter from accumulating in the bowl rim. Once it starts to rot that can become the source of your smells.

Back when I ran a bareboat charter company I had good luck with the toilet deodorant blocks contained in plastic cages that you hang under the rim of the bowl.

Also the water sitting the lines all week go foul. So flush the heads very well when you first go to use them after they have been sitting unused for a while.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dilligas

Flush it with fresh water. You will have to plumb it in and most likely the cold water line from the sink will work fine. Been there done that, makes a huge difference.
Click to expand...


Do Not try to connnect a raw water flush head to your boat's potable water system. This creates a good chance of cross contamination (poop mixing with your potable water) and disease.

It's fine to fill a container from the sink and dump it into the head for flushing, but don't try to connect them together.
 
Aside from treating the holdong tank for odors, several years ago we discoverd a product called "J oy Manganos forever fragrant". This product removes the objectionable odors from the cabin space and lasts a full season or more, it's the only thing we've ever found that really works to remove these odors from inside a boat.
 
quote:
Originally posted by rtribble

Aside from treating the holdong tank for odors, several years ago we discoverd a product called "J oy Manganos forever fragrant". This product removes the objectionable odors from the cabin space and lasts a full season or more, it's the only thing we've ever found that really works to remove these odors from inside a boat.

Click to expand...

It is far better to stop the odor at the source than use a masking agent.
Bill
 
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