No Discharge Zone

I'd double check that before hanging it over the side in front of a LE officer. :-)
 
LittleBookWorm - I suspect that most people who can not locate a pump out drop their loads anyway when no one is looking or at night. Personally I find legislation creating NDZ irresponsible to the community not the boaters that boycott them. They would be better served requiring boaters to have a Type 1 or 2 system on board.

I think they should have been requiring these in manufacturing for years now. And giving incentives to folks that want to retrofit their existing boats. I don't have a discharge system (strictly pump out) but if I did I would definitely install a Type I or II system. Unless of course I could not use it anywhere. That is what seems to be happening. Even though these systems render the "debris" harmless or non-toxic, they are still outlawed for use. Last September over 500k gallons of untreated raw sewage spilled into the patapsco river from a treatment plant. That would be the equivalent of me dumping my holding tank dockside untreated 5000 times. In March or this year there was a spill of 17 million gallons. Yes, that would be another 170,000 dumps of my holding tank. So if you have 2000 boaters in this river dropping 100 gallons a month for 87.5 months you will have the same amount of sewage. I am hearing that this is a somewhat common occurence on the east coast. But that is just Baltimore. Other areas could have more or less.
 
"EPA reviewed DEC’s proposal to establish a no discharge zone for New York areas of the Long Island Sound and determined that there are adequate facilities in the Sound for boats to pump out their sewage."

What ratio of boats to pumpouts do they consider adequate?
 
I do agree that it is the various municipalities' responsibility to have operational, accessible, and numerous pump-out stations or boats, conditional to the number of boats with heads normally in a given area. I agree that that is not always the case. I do not agree, however, that dumping should be allowed in the bays and other closed areas. The fact that there are sewage spills from treatment plants doesn't make boat dumping the thing to do. The operators of the plants should be fined heavily for spillages, even if they are the municipalities themselves. Where we boat, there are three pump-out stations within a 15 minute run. That, and the fact that the only ones who use the head on our boat are the grandkids, does cloud my judgement a little when it comes to the availabiliyt of stations. There should be more, open to all boats, on a reasonable schedule. Hy
 
I don't think anyone advocates the dumping for raw sewage into the water system. However, Type I and II systems turn the waste into essentially dirt waste. No different than what runs down the side of a hill during a rain storm.

•Type I is a flow through discharge device that produces effluent having a fecal coliform bacteria count not greater than 1,000 per 100 milliliters and no visible floating solids. This type of device is typically a physical/chemical based system that relies on maceration and chlorination. Type I MSDs are issued a Certificate of Approval.

•Type II is a flow through discharge device that produces effluent having a fecal coliform bacteria count not greater than 200 per 100 milliliters and suspended solids not greater than 150 milligrams per liter. This type of device is typically a biological or aerobic digestion based system.
 
quote:
Originally posted by jmeirhofer

I don't think anyone advocates the dumping for raw sewage into the water system. However, Type I and II systems turn the waste into essentially dirt waste. No different than what runs down the side of a hill during a rain storm.

•Type I is a flow through discharge device that produces effluent having a fecal coliform bacteria count not greater than 1,000 per 100 milliliters and no visible floating solids. This type of device is typically a physical/chemical based system that relies on maceration and chlorination. Type I MSDs are issued a Certificate of Approval.

•Type II is a flow through discharge device that produces effluent having a fecal coliform bacteria count not greater than 200 per 100 milliliters and suspended solids not greater than 150 milligrams per liter. This type of device is typically a biological or aerobic digestion based system.

Click to expand...


I wonder how much untreated gold fish poop in a liter of water it would take to equal the parameters set above.
 
quote:
Originally posted by littlebookworm

I do agree that it is the various municipalities' responsibility to have operational, accessible, and numerous pump-out stations or boats, conditional to the number of boats with heads normally in a given area. I agree that that is not always the case. I do not agree, however, that dumping should be allowed in the bays and other closed areas. The fact that there are sewage spills from treatment plants doesn't make boat dumping the thing to do. The operators of the plants should be fined heavily for spillages, even if they are the municipalities themselves. Where we boat, there are three pump-out stations within a 15 minute run. That, and the fact that the only ones who use the head on our boat are the grandkids, does cloud my judgement a little when it comes to the availabiliyt of stations. There should be more, open to all boats, on a reasonable schedule. Hy

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You didn't answer my question. How is preventing the use of Type I or Type II MSDs going to improve water quality? Where does it go after a pump out?
 
Isn't it all going back into our water from the pumpout stations?
 
You are correct, sir. The question is if it's treated or not. And most likely it isn't treated any better than what a Type I or Type II MSD would do. No Discharge Zones make no sense.
 
" I do not agree, however, that dumping should be allowed in the bays and other closed areas. The fact that there are sewage spills from treatment plants doesn't make boat dumping the thing to "

Nobody suggested that dumping untreated sewage should be allowed.

Let me tell you how pump out works here in Miami, where there re are thousands of boats within a few miles:

The big municipal marina had pump out at every slip over 40', so that a great.. That s where my boat is.

They so have a pump out boat for the mooring field, but even when the marina pump out is out, they can not use the boat inside the marina because of some rule..

The next marina, Grive harbor,has no pump out. They have about 60 slips, mostly big boats. Again the city boat will not pump out boats in this marina... So, to pump out, these boats have to go over to the city marina but there are no pump out slip. You have to hope that you can find an empty slip... Then you have to walk to the office, as much as 1/2 mile to get the hose and return it!

Next door is montys marina, close to 100 boats. They have a 50' dock with pump out but only for their customers. It's a bit shallow, and when i go there I have 20' of stern blocking one of the fishing charter boats. And I can't go at high tide because the pilings are to short...

Next up, Rickenbacker marina just before downtown.. They have a pump out at the fuel dock, but you can only use it Monday thru Friday...

Then you have the ultra expensive Miami beach marina with a pump out but they use the dock for transients so half the time, it s useless and the hose is 50' long...

And Finally Bayside, the other city marina has a pump out dock which is about 80' long and reasonably accessible. It's really the only public pump out in all of Miami...

The only other public pump out is at the cape Florida state park... Unfortunately, it a too shallow for big boats and on week ends the dock is fulll.

So, for all of Miami/Miami beach there is only one public pump out and the city, which flies a clean marina flag at the office isn't making any effort to make things easier incl using the pump out boat

Anybody wants to guess what 90% of the boats do?
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ted C.

"EPA reviewed DEC’s proposal to establish a no discharge zone for New York areas of the Long Island Sound and determined that there are adequate facilities in the Sound for boats to pump out their sewage."

What ratio of boats to pumpouts do they consider adequate?

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And when you get that low number, figure more than half of them don't work!!!!!

So with that said, what is worse for the environment, dumping your holding tank, or your carbon footprint running from one non working pump out station to another?

I am 100% pro protecting the environment,when the government dictates crap like this (pun intended) it seems to have the opposite effect.
 
I think we eat and drink too much when we are out boating. The govt. should regulate what we eat and drink. O yea they do that all ready.
Al
 
Pascal: Under those circumstances, I have to admit that you've got a valid point. That situation sucks. (I couldn't resist the pun, sorry.) How can a municipality which is centerred on boating and boats expect boaters to follow the rules and keep the waters clean when they, the minicipalities, refuse to have the facilities available to boaters in a reasonable manner? That's like requiring people to recycle, yet not having any pick-up of recyclables. It's not going to work. Unfortunately, the government agencies, from the state on down, in Forida refuse to spend money on necessities, never mind extras. I have two brothers and other relatives and friends who live in Florida, so I've heard some of the complaints about what does and doesn't happen down there. I don't have an answer for you. I wish you well. Hy
 
I'm still waiting on the answer as to how preventing the use of Type I or Type II MSDs improves water quality?

Anyone? Littlebookworm? EPA? Anybody? Surely somebody has the answer.
 
I wonder what NYS answer to the EPA would be if Paul Allen came into town in Octopus and told them he was dumping his treated waste in LIS enroute. He intended to spend about $50 Million over the next few days not including fuel, dock preps, fees, etc......

Octopus has a full sewage treatment plant aboard.

I'm thinking Bloomberg would have a 4 hour erection and there would be a ticker tape parade over the treated poop.
 
It s not that they don't have the money! It s not about the money although many want to bring politics into that and blame state officials.

It s about government employees, those so called civil servants, not having to report, not having to be responsible for anything, not having ever managed anything with the risk of loosing their job or their business. In the case of Miami, they have the money... They were able to pay $100k for that pump out boat and have the budget to man it and maintain it. Things just happen in the bureaucratic chain somewhere above the ground floor. Last year I really needed a pump out and the system here at dinner key was down. The pump out boat operator took it upon himself to pump the boat at one of Thead that was empty, and he was actually sick that day. So it s not the fault of the guys working at the marina, it s the whole bureaucracy that's killing everything

And again it s not Miami or Florida... It s also like in Beaufort SC where the hose at the town marina is so short that it can't reach the other side of the boat! Or Newport RI where you have to wait hours on a busy summer day making sure you don't step away from the VHF... The list goes on.

Reason I feel do strongly about this issue is that I work, live and play on one of the best body of water in the US, part of which is a state park AND a national park. Year round, we sail, swim etc so i take water quality seriously
 
quote:
Originally posted by KiDa

I'm thinking Bloomberg would have a 4 hour erection

Click to expand...


I really didn't need that mental picture :-)
 
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