Overloaded - and Capsized

Just as or more importantly why would a New York Harbor Tour operator allow the boat to leave his facility in an overloaded state. Oh Crap! Sorry I just realised profit is paramount over person's safety at that location it would seem!!
 
Illegal charter all the way around. Captain not licensed properly and boat is uninspected. The common boat charter you see on youtube in FL all the time. You can’t just start taking money for boat rides.
 
I don't think it a legit NY harbor tour operator, just one of these shady small charter broker operating under the radar running a number of bareboat charters. There are dozens of these here in miami, they advertise all inclusive rates including fuel and crew for up to 13 passengers.

They avoid the 6 passenger limit by using bareboat contracts which is legal, unfortunately, as long they follow a few rules including letting the charterer select and hire the crew. a bareboat is considered recreational not commercial and doesn't require a licensed captain or commercial lifesaving equipment like type 1 PFDs. the only way the coast guard can nail them is by proving the charterer didn't have a choice of crew and didn't pay them separately.

unfortunately any change will take an act of congress to amend the ancient small passenger vessel act... good luck with that. Problem is that the act dates back to the 70s and things have changed a lot. Back then charters were mostly fishing charters so 6 passengers was reasonable. nowadays the demand is for boats in the 50'+ range and groups of 12 for tours and parties so by making it almost impossible to get the typical 50-70 footer inspected the regulations are forcing people to charter bareboat without licensed captains.

maybe this will be a wake up call to finally reform the law. One solution would be to impose a 24 hours minimum for bareboat contracts and at the same time lower the bar for 12 passengers uninspected charters from 100 tons to 25. this will force the use of not just OUPV licensed captains but masters. but again... congress and the USCG bureaucracy ...
 
Pascal is on point. Licensing and the legal differences between charter and bare-boat charter are rarely- if ever- posted.

But carrying pax beyond the Capacity Plate is -
For all boaters - illegal. And not having adequate life jackets, size appropriate, is also a violation.
 
Remember that a bareboat charter allows the charterer to captain the vessel - or hire an independent captain and crew.
 
Regardless of the bareboat charter, why is this not at least manslaughter for the infant for knowingly taking the baby with no flotation device? And, how is this considered a bareboat charter when the 'captain' advertises these tours in his boat?
The charges seem very light regardless of the definition of the charter.
 
Very sad, there definitely should be more consequences to the charter operator (I won't call him a captain because he is NOT!). The people that did the charter, probably had no idea it was illegal nor did they even know there was such a thing, ashame they did not know to ask a couple of questions - license? Insurance? -- but through their ignorance of how marine charts should work, put themselves in grave danger with a tragic outcome.
I am not a proponent of more government/regulation, but the world of boat charters/rentals is out of control. Even on LKN, the number of charters - some legal some not - that clog up the public boat ramps is ridiculous. Seeing an old clapped out SeaRay with a stereo that will shake your fillings out, the smell of weed wafting from it and tweakers on the bow just gives boating a bad look. Then there are the rentals, mostly pontoons that cluelessly amble all around the lake with no idea how to operate a boat on a busy waterway. Every summer there are multiple accidents involving these operations. The marina where I keep my boat shutdown is rental fleet - too much trouble and he is a smart guy and realized it was just a matter of time before his name and business was associated with a terrible accident.

Thankfully LKN is big enough I can avoid all this for the most part. I don't see this stuff every time I am out, but there are times. Post labor day is the best boating on LKN!
 
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BillK said:
Very sad, there definitely should be more consequences to the charter operator (I won't call him a captain because he is NOT!). The people that did the charter, probably had no idea it was illegal nor did they even know there was such a thing, ashame they did not know to ask a couple of questions - license? Insurance? -- but through their ignorance of how marine charts should work, put themselves in grave danger with a tragic outcome.
I am not a proponent of more government/regulation, but the world of boat charters/rentals is out of control. Even on LKN, the number of charters - some legal some not - that clog up the public boat ramps is ridiculous. Seeing an old clapped out SeaRay with a stereo that will shake your fillings out, the smell of weed wafting from it and tweakers on the bow just gives boating a bad look. Then there are the rentals, mostly pontoons that cluelessly amble all around the lake with no idea how to operate a boat on a busy waterway. Every summer there are multiple accidents involving these operations. The marina where I keep my boat shutdown is rental fleet - too much trouble and he is a smart guy and realized it was just a matter of time before his name and business was associated with a terrible accident.

Thankfully LKN is big enough I can avoid all this for the most part. I don't see this stuff every time I am out, but there are times. Post labor day is the best boating on LKN!
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Yeah, here in Chicago it's a problem. There is actually a party cove along the lakefront. People rent a boat from Boatsetter, higher a "captain" (or not) and then head out on a booze cruise. Nobody is really checking that everything is in order, until something goes wrong. Each year there are issues including dismemberment and death.
 
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here in miami you recognize many of the ghetto charters thanks to their pink sumbrella! I bet this is the only market when Sunbrella sells in that color… and these three are far from the most graphics!

This is one thing that surprised me about Watts Bar Lake in eastern TN… no crowds, no idiots. This is the second summer we have the boat up there and most coves are empty even on week ends. We were up there for July 4th and there was little traffic. Most marinas have a few ‘toons for rent but they all behave.

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This would be like hiring your airplane out and someone gets a pilot to fly it for compensation. One the airplane is not part an air carrier fleet and the pilot has no certification. The FAA is very good about shutting down these illegal operations. The CG needs to look at the paradigm in aviation in for hire operations.
 
GeeBee said:
This would be like hiring your airplane out and someone gets a pilot to fly it for compensation. One the airplane is not part an air carrier fleet and the pilot has no certification. The FAA is very good about shutting down these illegal operations. The CG needs to look at the paradigm in aviation in for hire operations.
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IDK, falling several thousand feet out of the sky seems a little more life threatening than a stupid captain on a boat. :)
 
And impacting a tree at 150 kts is lot more painful than a dock at 5kts :)

Problem are the laws. USCG can only enforce existing rules, they don’t make them.
 
PascalG said:
And impacting a tree at 150 kts is lot more painful than a dock at 5kts :)

Problem are the laws. USCG can only enforce existing rules, they don’t make them.
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It's not the laws. It's the stupid people who don't give a chit.
 
PascalG said:
And impacting a tree at 150 kts is lot more painful than a dock at 5kts :)

Problem are the laws. USCG can only enforce existing rules, they don’t make them.
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I would agree, but the FAA has made a very clear distinction in law. That is they regulate not-for-hire minimally but the moment money changes hands they protect the traveling public with zeal. As an example there is no requirement to observe the in service time limits on a not for hire operation. The moment money changes hands everything from the engine to the fire extinguisher has a "sell by date" that is required to be observed and documented. The CG needs to recommend to Congress the changes to protect paying public who is unaware of the nature of operations.
 
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