Pod drives in the real world

quote:
Originally posted by pdecat

Sounds like all the damaged gear was an operator malfunction. Why do so many people insist on going so fast in shallow and unfamiliar water??????

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Maybe they just never learned how to read a depth sounder, or tide tables for that matter.

I see that regularly around here, boats go flying out across the shallows and come back a few hours later, only to discover the water has dropped a couple feet. Oops.
 
quote:
Originally posted by pdecat

The pod debate is reminiscent of the stick shift vs auto transmission debate and as costs come down will probably be won by pods. I'm like stick shift drivers, comfortable with either.

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I'm curious, Bruce (pdecat), do you drive a car with a standard shift? For some reason I found that funny as I have pods on my boat but I do drive a car with a standard shift (lol).

Mark
 
Does anyone know of a head to head test between Merc Zeus and Volvo IPS?
I really like the Volvo but would like more information as how they stack up against each other.
 
I drive auto trans these days. Stick was fine it its day but I don't see any reason for it today. Likewise pods vs straight drives. Pods are unnecessary and IMO don't add anything a decent boat driver cant do with straight drives but that doesn't meant that pods wont prevail when price comes down.
 
quote:
Originally posted by pdecat
Pods are unnecessary and IMO don't add anything a decent boat driver cant do with straight drives

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I assume you're referring to joystick maneuvering in close quarters, certainly a significant benefit of the technology. But there is a common misconception that it ends there. Most pod owners will tell you that while they love the joystick, it's the efficiency and quieter ride that really make them lovers of the technology over shaft-driven boats. The cost-benefit of the fuel efficiency may not be there yet but in terms of added range it is certainly a plus. I would also add the benefit of station-holding when equipped (Skyhook in Zeus boats). It is a spectacular feature that I never want to boat without again.
 
While I do have joystick maneuvering and finally use it around the dock (I am very old school as I have been boating for over 50 years and did not use it at first, much to the disappointment of my sons), I find all the other aspects of the technology fantastic. As Sierra stated, I prefer IPS to shaft drives for a multitude of reasons. At WOT I can travel at over 42 mph burning about 40 gph. I cruise at 28 mph burning a little over 20 gph (with full fuel on board). I can carry on a normal conversation with anyone in the cockpit at cruise because of the lack of noise, and because of vectored thrust I can maneuver easily at idle speed and have full steering control in both forward and reverse (without the use of the joystick). BTW, at idle speed my boat moves at over 6 mph and I burn 0.4 gph and that includes both engines. Also Volvo Penta now has Dynamic Positioning available which is the same as Skyhook from Zeus.

I also suspect that when and if I decide to sell the boat, pods will probably be more desirable than inboards. I don't want to create a war here but I remember when I was a kid (back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, lol) and told my father to purchase power windows with his new car and he told me that power windows were an unnecessary expense because anyone can roll a window down. He told me that when he was 35 and I was about 10. From the time he was 40 and up until the time he died, every car he owned had power windows and air conditioning :-).
 
I think there are many positives to either pod system available.
As far as the comment about reading one's depth gauge and reading charts that's hogwash. In our area Sandy changed everything.
Even prior to Sandy you had to know the area well or you would run aground if you followed the charts or depth gauge.
You could go 2 miles out of our inlet (Holgate) be in 60 feet of water and go to 2' of water in seconds at speed so how would a depth finder help here?
I think they are very cool given how efficient they operate, case in point CurrentSea boat's horse power needed with or without the Pod system.
Too expensive for my wallet and if and when I change boats it will be to a under powered diesel trawler look alike. I prefer slow crawling cruising over speed.
Bill
 
quote:
You could go 2 miles out of our inlet (Holgate) be in 60 feet of water and go to 2' of water in seconds at speed so how would a depth finder help here?
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Nothing is perfect but if you were going slow in any area of uncertain bottom conditions there would be less damage. It does pay to look at charts even obsolete ones because shoals tend to remain in the same area. They may move around a lot but if they were on the north side of an inlet or a full circle they are likely to remain so.

The Fire island inlet is notorious for shifting shoals. Local boaters know that and run fast at their own risk.
 
Sierra

I have 2 years running the Zesus Pod system and have found the following

1)Draft- in the case of Sea Ray my 50" draft is 4" LESS then a the same boat with shafts

2-3)Lobster Pots & Logs. I boat the Hudson River & Long Island sound and they have plenty of both. But pods or shafts is it the situational awareness of the operators the counts most on this. You can hit a something and only ding a prop, and the pod (Zesus) may deflect it and therefore no ding. or you can hit it hard and rick major damage to the boat, but the pods are designed to breakaway, and be retrieved, service and placed back on, with no hull (leaking) damage.

Now comes SERVICE. That was my biggest concern, and at sometime became a reality. I have the only pod boat at my dealer, and a large one at that. However Marine Max out on Long Island has a great service tech, and a few calls was all it took to correct some minor electrical issues. These are "fly by wire" and everything depends on VOLTAGE. So keep the batteries in tip top shape, also many of the old ways of doing things just create problems. Example, You must shut off the battery charger breaker on the main panel PRIOR to starting the mains. If not you get a fault code because the computer knows once the engine is running the Alt should be the charge source, and not by A/C power (shore or genset). On my boat (540 Sundancer) you must A)turn starboard key on, then port key, start the starboard engine first, let it settle on 600 rpm THEN start the port engine. If not you get a code. The captains briefing never covered this and it is the tech servicing the same voltage issues on 6 boats here that figure it out. Since I've been following the "check list" I've never had a problem.

The GOOD NEWS--they WORK. The fuel burn on my boat is 36 to 38 GPH at cruise and that is the same burn I had on my shaft 2007 48DA and this boat weighs 22000lbs more then the 48! The bow raise is less, and I can't tell you how easy it is to get into any tight spot.

As an added bonus (fun wise) I am in a very old yacht club and they all stop just to stare when they see 55' of boat stop and slide into the slip sideways. Thinking of charging for the show lol

hope this helps

Rich
 
Rich,

Great to hear your insight and experience. I am now in my third season with Zeus with over two thousand nautical miles under the hull. I would absolutely buy a Zeus boat tomorrow were I in the market and I think that says a lot. But they are certainly not for everyone as clearly reflected by the comments here and people's varied needs, wants and boating lifestyles.

I was particularly interested in your experiences with voltage issues which I have not had. In fact, while I am reluctant to even type it, I have really not have had any issues with the electronic or electrical aspects of the system, save the occasional fault which was cleared by keying off and on. I was never instructed to, nor have I ever shut off my charger when underway. I was aware of the starboard then port firing sequence and have always adhered to it.

I have been doing the maintenance by the book using certified Merc techs which is not a small added expense but something certainly worthy of the "investment."

A friend in his first season with IPS has had a lot of issues, several of which he firmly believes would not have occurred were it not for the forward facing props. His IPS props are nibral and not as forgiving as stainless steel in minor prop strikes or soft groundings which have been the cause of his problems. Of course, everyone's experience is different, but it has been a bit disheartening for him. I also know a few people whose Zeus systems have caused them major headaches. As with anything, you have to do your due diligence and know what your getting yourself into.
 
Sierra

As I stated there were 5 other large Sea Rays with Zesus out on the East End of LI and all began to have the same issues, so when I called my dealer with a repeated problem while I was in Montauk, they called the dealer from there..they knew exactly what is was, came over and the tech rebooted, found the miss-aligned harness connector and gave me the starting/shutdown procedures.

The tech also stated that just shutting off the keys will not permanently clear the code as the EPMs have memory.(At least on Sea Rays)You had to fully pull the power supply cord from the units, then they took 20 minutes to reboot and after that and my new starting sequence I have not had a problem. Also the harnesses from the EPMs to the pods are very critical. They have 20 pin connectors and the twist lock must be turned completely to seal them. Anytime a tech crawls around to make repairs on other systems, make sure they inspect the harness, in case they accidently pulled on it. Dislodging even 1 pin, will cause fault codes. that was found also during his inspection in Montauk.

Now that I know this, and informed my local dealer and the tech that services my boat, I'm confident theses issues are in the past. I've been good for a month!

Rich
Due diligence is a must. The main harness from the EPMs to the pods have 20 pin connectors and must been engaged straight and the twist ring turned tight. All it takes is a service tech fixing something else climbing over the pod and partially pulling the harness, one misaligned pin and you get fault codes. I brought that to my dealers attention, and now they know to double check all the harness connections after any type of ER service.
 
Gary

Heads up comparison show just about dead even. Both are fuel efficient, both quiet, and both state of the art. So it comes down to personal beliefs. Exposed or protected props, standard station keeping or optional station keeping. Both do the job as advertised, but I think Zesus is the complete package cost wise. I boat single handed most of the time, and Skyhook is the best part of the system. When I need to set up for transient slip, I don't have to keep returning to the helm to adjust for drift.

Oh and lets not forget boat brand. Your allegiance to a brand, will most likely force the issue with regards to engine manufacturer/pod matchup
Cummins/Zesus...Volvo/IPS
 
I own an IPS powered boat but have had a fair amount of helm time on a cummins Zeus powered boat. There are things I like about both. The Zeus joystick is engaged right away as long as the shifters are in neutral. No button to push etc. which is handy. Secondly, the IPS which routes all exhaust out of the pods can produce an "outboard effect" where the exhaust will propel the boat forward. This can be a handful when bow in single handing the boat however as long as you set up a little early, you are fine. The Zeus boat I ran (44 Dancer) has prop pockets where the pods are mounted perfectly horizontal, whereas the IPS on my Tiara are mounted flat to the bottom of the hull (15deg deadrise)which will cause the boat to roll a little when propelled sideways. The IPS system seems to me a little more responsive and easier to make minor corrections with the joystick than the zeus. Underwater collision with IPS and its forward facing props is a concern however the hole shot and efficiency this provides is noticeable. Talking with my mechanic who is both IPS as well as Zeus certified he feels the IPS is a better engineered system. Also as of late with Cummins and Mercury essentially divorcing each other he has been running into a lot of finger pointing between the 2 regarding service work etc.

max
 
"The Fire island inlet is notorious for shifting shoals. Local boaters know that and run fast at their own risk."

Dramatic shoaling occurs all the way from Democrat Point/Sore Thumb in to the Great South Bay. Back in the day my friends and I used to hang out at the OBI till the wee hours. The ride back to Bayshore around Captree in between east and west Fire Island in the dark was alway slow...we would usually have someone leaning off the bow shining a flashlight into the water slow. The markers in this area are pretty much useless.

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PMY just posted what I found to be a very thoughtful article,The Truth About Shafts and Pods. It covers much of what has been discussed here over the years with the underlying theme which is true of all types of technology: it's not for everyone for a variety of reasons. For the type of boating I do in the places I do it, I couldn't have enjoyed it more for the past three years. If it's available and an appropriate match for my next vessel and needs, I will stay with it.
 
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