problem with 05-06 300 dancers?
- Thread starter Woodsong
- Start date
- Joined
- May 9, 2001
- RO Number
- 4517
- Messages
- 168
I just traded off my '04 300 Sundancer with 6.2s in late June. I put 250 hours on it in two and a half years and the only problems were small and not electrical. The '05 and '06 are still identicle to my '04 and the current '07 will be the last year for that boat.
The electrical systems were completely separate between the two engines. The EIM units that contain the breakers were even 8 feet apart. One under the steering wheel inside a door and the other on the port rear corner of the cockpit behind a door right next to the battery switches. Searay uses two group 27 batteries for each and there is really nowhere that the two systems cross. They even use separate fuel tanks with no crossover. I can't for the life of me imagine how something could take out both sides at once.
The electrical systems were completely separate between the two engines. The EIM units that contain the breakers were even 8 feet apart. One under the steering wheel inside a door and the other on the port rear corner of the cockpit behind a door right next to the battery switches. Searay uses two group 27 batteries for each and there is really nowhere that the two systems cross. They even use separate fuel tanks with no crossover. I can't for the life of me imagine how something could take out both sides at once.
Pascal
The way that the system works is that all of the “action” device wires run back to the distro center. For example, in a lighting circuit, the actual power feed wires come from a solid state relay that is located in the distro. Therefore, you still have some standard copper running around the boat. The difference is that the control circuits that are run all over the boat are Ethernet. Because of that, you can have any type of control that you want such as programmable touch screens, semi-mechanical switches, automatic controls, complete systems integration controls, and even wireless. It is simpler to run just one single wire and daisy chain it where you want. Each interface module acts like a mini-network hub.
So to add a new interface, you simply choose what you want, mount it, and then plug into the nearest module with cat 5. The system generates an ip address to the device and you activate it through some easy programming and done, you’re on the network! Adding control relays work the same. To add additional systems in you simply plug the relay into the cat 5 at the distro. Now to get power to your device, you still would have to run new copper to it. Hence, it’s not perfect. The relays have a simple mechanical bypass that you use to activate the device if the solid state or any other component fails. To get to the relays, the main display screen folds down and they are behind it. They are also modular so if one goes bad, you simply replace the bad module. It does not take down the whole system. You can still use the component that it’s attached to till you get the replacement. This is a huge improvement over the soft touch controls. With that system if a module or a pad goes bad, the whole system craps out. That’s why I said it’s junk.
So basically the touch screen system is a beginning concept for complete systems integration with a focus on smart technology. This is supposed to be a marriage of some cost cutting techniques and convenience. Not the end all be all. It’s still going to be a bit challenging to modify for some DIYers, but, it’s very new and is still evolving. At least the computer geeks will have fun! Personally, when I saw it, I was impressed and I’m usually very skeptical about stuff like this and will it still be working 5 years from now or how quickly it will be obsolete. But my initial reaction was that it is very well thought out. Should be interesting to see it evolve.
You raise a good point about “not being able to lift the hatch to smell for fumes.” For the moment, Sea Ray is only putting this system on the 36 sedan bridge and the new 55 sun dancer. Both have manual gas assisted hatches to get to the engine room so checking the bilge is not an issue. But I suspect that if it works well, it will start to make its way into some of their other models.
Sea Ray has been using battery ignition protected solenoids for many years to turn on batteries. They use a momentary contact switch to engage a solenoid holding coil that closes the solenoids contacts and engaging the battery circuits.. As long as there is power to the coil, the solenoid stays closed. Pressing the “off” side of the battery switch interrupts the power to the coil and thus releasing the solenoid contacts and opening the battery circuit. This is in fact how it works on my boat. This is a completely sealed device so no danger of spark.
I should qualify my statement "I would much rather have traditional mechanical switches than the electronic crap I have now.”
I’m not opposed to “wiz bang” technology as long as it works or there is a fool proof backup system. I mean if it wasn’t for technology we would not be on this board now and I would not be typing this from my wireless lap top while surfing my gazillion channels on my 50 inch hi def flat screen TV or watching Star Wars movies in ear shattering THX surround sound with base rumbling the very chair I’m sitting in…….
Mike.
The way that the system works is that all of the “action” device wires run back to the distro center. For example, in a lighting circuit, the actual power feed wires come from a solid state relay that is located in the distro. Therefore, you still have some standard copper running around the boat. The difference is that the control circuits that are run all over the boat are Ethernet. Because of that, you can have any type of control that you want such as programmable touch screens, semi-mechanical switches, automatic controls, complete systems integration controls, and even wireless. It is simpler to run just one single wire and daisy chain it where you want. Each interface module acts like a mini-network hub.
So to add a new interface, you simply choose what you want, mount it, and then plug into the nearest module with cat 5. The system generates an ip address to the device and you activate it through some easy programming and done, you’re on the network! Adding control relays work the same. To add additional systems in you simply plug the relay into the cat 5 at the distro. Now to get power to your device, you still would have to run new copper to it. Hence, it’s not perfect. The relays have a simple mechanical bypass that you use to activate the device if the solid state or any other component fails. To get to the relays, the main display screen folds down and they are behind it. They are also modular so if one goes bad, you simply replace the bad module. It does not take down the whole system. You can still use the component that it’s attached to till you get the replacement. This is a huge improvement over the soft touch controls. With that system if a module or a pad goes bad, the whole system craps out. That’s why I said it’s junk.
So basically the touch screen system is a beginning concept for complete systems integration with a focus on smart technology. This is supposed to be a marriage of some cost cutting techniques and convenience. Not the end all be all. It’s still going to be a bit challenging to modify for some DIYers, but, it’s very new and is still evolving. At least the computer geeks will have fun! Personally, when I saw it, I was impressed and I’m usually very skeptical about stuff like this and will it still be working 5 years from now or how quickly it will be obsolete. But my initial reaction was that it is very well thought out. Should be interesting to see it evolve.
You raise a good point about “not being able to lift the hatch to smell for fumes.” For the moment, Sea Ray is only putting this system on the 36 sedan bridge and the new 55 sun dancer. Both have manual gas assisted hatches to get to the engine room so checking the bilge is not an issue. But I suspect that if it works well, it will start to make its way into some of their other models.
Sea Ray has been using battery ignition protected solenoids for many years to turn on batteries. They use a momentary contact switch to engage a solenoid holding coil that closes the solenoids contacts and engaging the battery circuits.. As long as there is power to the coil, the solenoid stays closed. Pressing the “off” side of the battery switch interrupts the power to the coil and thus releasing the solenoid contacts and opening the battery circuit. This is in fact how it works on my boat. This is a completely sealed device so no danger of spark.
I should qualify my statement "I would much rather have traditional mechanical switches than the electronic crap I have now.”
I’m not opposed to “wiz bang” technology as long as it works or there is a fool proof backup system. I mean if it wasn’t for technology we would not be on this board now and I would not be typing this from my wireless lap top while surfing my gazillion channels on my 50 inch hi def flat screen TV or watching Star Wars movies in ear shattering THX surround sound with base rumbling the very chair I’m sitting in…….
Mike.
Rob,
I won't be taking delivery until spring of ’08. I’m working with my dealer to grab one of the last ’07 production slots before they change the model year. So we will have to wait a bit for production photos. They are built at Palm Coast and I'm in that neck of the woods quite a bit for business so I should pretty much get to see it built. I’m doing a lot of customization on the boat and it’s taking a while to sort it all out. I will keep everyone posted.
Mike
I won't be taking delivery until spring of ’08. I’m working with my dealer to grab one of the last ’07 production slots before they change the model year. So we will have to wait a bit for production photos. They are built at Palm Coast and I'm in that neck of the woods quite a bit for business so I should pretty much get to see it built. I’m doing a lot of customization on the boat and it’s taking a while to sort it all out. I will keep everyone posted.
Mike
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2003
- RO Number
- 12212
- Messages
- 12,183
i'm not opposed to technology when it serves a purpose : flat screens, GPS plotters, wireless, ... you name it. what i dont' understand and accept is technology for the sake of it and this is was it smells like to me.
There is nothing more simple than a conventional circuit breaker and some wires running to a switch and whatever device. you want to add something ? add a breaker and run some wires. all it takes is builder to have installed PVC chases in teh right spots. if you want to add something to these high tech systems, you still need to run wires to power it anyway... so why would you run power feed PLUS cat 5 ?
then i still dont' understand the benefits of being able to control anything from anywhere on the boat. I see benefits for this technology on REAL yachts.... 100+ footers with multiple helms and remote systems but on a 60 foot boat ? do you really need to control your bilge blower, cokpit light for the master state room ?
on a the typical boat (express or flybridge), what is wrong with having the battery switches in a locker in the cockpit ? why do you need some remote control solenoid instead of a tried and true battery switch ? are there any benfit to the complicated system besides saving a few ft of battery cables...
36 years after it was built, my electrical panel works very well. a few breakers have been replaced of the year,. a few have been added but it all works. if i want to add something to the boat, i don't need a factory trained engineer with computers to do it.
what is going to happen.. not even 36 years from now... but just 10 or 15 when these systems needs maintenance and upgrades ? even if all the modules are still available what if you want to upgrade certain systems to new technology ? it's going to be one major headache while benefits are unclear... again, i don't care to shut down my generator from the comfort of my bed... i can get up and go the main panel to do it...
There is nothing more simple than a conventional circuit breaker and some wires running to a switch and whatever device. you want to add something ? add a breaker and run some wires. all it takes is builder to have installed PVC chases in teh right spots. if you want to add something to these high tech systems, you still need to run wires to power it anyway... so why would you run power feed PLUS cat 5 ?
then i still dont' understand the benefits of being able to control anything from anywhere on the boat. I see benefits for this technology on REAL yachts.... 100+ footers with multiple helms and remote systems but on a 60 foot boat ? do you really need to control your bilge blower, cokpit light for the master state room ?
on a the typical boat (express or flybridge), what is wrong with having the battery switches in a locker in the cockpit ? why do you need some remote control solenoid instead of a tried and true battery switch ? are there any benfit to the complicated system besides saving a few ft of battery cables...
36 years after it was built, my electrical panel works very well. a few breakers have been replaced of the year,. a few have been added but it all works. if i want to add something to the boat, i don't need a factory trained engineer with computers to do it.
what is going to happen.. not even 36 years from now... but just 10 or 15 when these systems needs maintenance and upgrades ? even if all the modules are still available what if you want to upgrade certain systems to new technology ? it's going to be one major headache while benefits are unclear... again, i don't care to shut down my generator from the comfort of my bed... i can get up and go the main panel to do it...
Mike,
Its funny u mention the price increase ( 07/ 08 ) A buddy of mine is trying to get out his boat... There a boat he is interested in but the dealers not budging. Boats been at the dealer going to be 6 or 7 months . Hasnt gone down a dime . Meanwhile his boat just keeps depreciating... Wtf with that ... ... just another example there stuffs better then ours... : )
Good luck with the custom stuff.. they give u enough options to make ur head spin.....
Keep us posted...
Rob
Its funny u mention the price increase ( 07/ 08 ) A buddy of mine is trying to get out his boat... There a boat he is interested in but the dealers not budging. Boats been at the dealer going to be 6 or 7 months . Hasnt gone down a dime . Meanwhile his boat just keeps depreciating... Wtf with that ... ... just another example there stuffs better then ours... : )
Good luck with the custom stuff.. they give u enough options to make ur head spin.....
Keep us posted...
Rob