QSB380 Cummins 2012

Hello Bruce,
I have not owned a Cummins in a boat only in a pickup truck - have never owned a Volvo either. Perkins, Lehman, Navistar , Hino, and Yanmar I have had myself. I have worked on quite a few Cummins marine installations on friends boats over the years. I always sent folks to Tony Athens as he was pretty clear (sometimes brutally so) and had real fair pricing given what the market is. Still given prices like $600 for a trans cooler and 25% ore more for a fuel cooler would lend me to send them to 'aftermarket' sources.
about 3 seasons ago I helped a Bayliner owner pull the aftercoolers on his 370 B engines. They were completely froze up slightly leaking, plugged and were unusable. I di not buy the parts myself but I remember him saying that he was over $8,000 by the time we had the new ones back in.
About a year before that I helped with a 45 Sea Ray with 450 C engines that had one aftercooler 'crack' due to a latent problem with freezing and the design. That bill was more than half the other one as the aftercooles are not the same. He also had the typical problem with the leak that occurs below the turbo on the lower banjo bolt. One banjo bolt , one copper washer and the sealer costs about $120.
Still had nightmares getting that to hold up.
All in all from what I have seen the C is much more robust engine than the b series.
 
trick I learned when a new copper washer was not handy was to sand both sides of the copper washer on fine wet or dry sandpaper. The roughened surfaces must have done something because it sealed.

PS Tony has in the past recommended removing fuel coolers IIRC
 
"trick I learned when a new copper washer was not handy was to sand both sides of the copper washer on fine wet or dry sandpaper. The roughened surfaces must have done something because it sealed"

Yes - agreed you also need to anneal I t by heating it as well. Normally though I consider washers,bolts, nuts and other fasteners as low cost easy to replace items.

"PS Tony has in the past recommended removing fuel coolers IIRC"

Yes - agreed as well. Unless the owners refused to cruise the engines(6B) below the suggested 40/hp per liter level.
Some do not care that the life will be 'greatly' shortened.
 
quote:
Originally posted by walterv

quote:
Originally posted by HOGAN

I love my Cummins. Intercooler should be done every 3-5 years. It's an easy DIY job. Go to biodiesel and look for the o ring kit.

What boat are you looking at?

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Don't make fun of me, need to downsize, the Silverton 45C is awesome, but the beam and power requirements are crazy for my pond.

Looking at this boat
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...87527/Baltimore/MD/United-States#.V-XJu_krJhE

And this one

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2012/Meridian-391-Sedan-2651351/Boston/MA/United-States#.V-XMC_krJhE

Click to expand...


I looked at two 36 Sea Rays before I narrowed things down to what I really want. Nice boat, but beware that the electronic touch pad system (forget what it's called) that controls a lot of electrical things is no longer made and apparently replacement parts are nearly impossible to find, and very costly if you can find them.
I didn't get too far in to it because I narrowed the search down to a different style boat pretty early in the search, but from what I can remember, there was some problems with it.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Gregory S

Walter, that sear Ray is FUGLY IMHO.

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LOL,and do agree, but in my neck of the woods the beam and space serve a purpose. Look at it like this Greg, there is the hot chick, then the one not so hot but she services you well LOL
 
quote:
Originally posted by JVM225

quote:
Originally posted by walterv

quote:
Originally posted by HOGAN

I love my Cummins. Intercooler should be done every 3-5 years. It's an easy DIY job. Go to biodiesel and look for the o ring kit.

What boat are you looking at?

Click to expand...


Don't make fun of me, need to downsize, the Silverton 45C is awesome, but the beam and power requirements are crazy for my pond.

Looking at this boat
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...87527/Baltimore/MD/United-States#.V-XJu_krJhE

And this one

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2012/Meridian-391-Sedan-2651351/Boston/MA/United-States#.V-XMC_krJhE

Click to expand...


I looked at two 36 Sea Rays before I narrowed things down to what I really want. Nice boat, but beware that the electronic touch pad system (forget what it's called) that controls a lot of electrical things is no longer made and apparently replacement parts are nearly impossible to find, and very costly if you can find them.
I didn't get too far in to it because I narrowed the search down to a different style boat pretty early in the search, but from what I can remember, there was some problems with it.

Click to expand...


Astute heads up, and you are correct! This is a concern.
 
Moot point on the new boat, another tire kicker bailed out on my boat. Keeping my boat, will fill the second slip I own with a day boat.Or, will move my boat in the play land where my boat should be.
 
Smitty,

I have a boat under purchase contract with a pair of QSC 8.3 500 hp Cummins. Engine hours are 1100.

The current owner said (will bring receipts to survey) that he had the cooling system taken off and cleaned about 2 years ago. The boat has had very little use since then...40-50 hours.

My questions are: Does this engine need the same frequent after cooler service that the 5.9's need? Should I expect to see this on his receipts or is this a totally different animal when it comes to cleaning the cooling system?
 
Walter, you should keep the boat and move it out east for a month or two next summer. You'll have a change of scenery, deeper water, and more options for large slips. You'll probably spend more time on the boat and appreciate the extra space :) The extra driving time isn't bad if you're not doing it all season. Early and late in the season there are more options to go to locally without having to worry about slip space.
 
Cummins Cs need aftercooler maintenance too. The zinc in the coolers need frequent attention as especially the lower one provides protection when engine is not running. After a while you will learn how often they need changing in your location and use.
Depending on the installation much of the cooling system probably drains when stopped except the lower parts of the coolers so sitting is no guarantee of cooler not degrading.
If I bought them I would recheck the cooling system to get a base line of condition and open the heat exchangers as well to look for old zinc pieces often left by sloppy workers. None of this is a big deal just normal to achieve a long happy life.

Proper loading is just as important on Cs as Bs.
I would buy Cs again in a heartbeat.
 
"My questions are: Does this engine need the same frequent after cooler service that the 5.9's need? Should I expect to see this on his receipts or is this a totally different animal when it comes to cleaning the cooling system?"

My first thought for someone potentially buying a boat like this is to get some good research data for yourself. The first stop I might advise is to join Boatdiesel(dot)com for $25 and read and ask any questions you have as that would be the best use of funds you may ever have made. My next thought would be to read all of the tips and tricks at Tony Athens site on the Cummins 6C engine at sbmar(dot)com. Here is a link to that site where he speaks about your aftercooler potential issues....
http://www.sbmar.com/category/articles/marine-aftercoolers/
And the last thought is to make sure you have engaged an engine surveyor you trust to check these engine for you prior to purchase as posts on the internet and even a few remote pictures can never replace a good inspection.

Yes - the aftercoolers need to be serviced, cleaned and ,lubed correctly and the initial service is the most important. The longer time period until the first service the more serious the issues and costs might be.
At 1,100 hours the OEM raw water pumps would be either a problem of will be soon, you can read about that as well at Sbmar.
Check for coolant leaks below the turbo's, look for new belts and hoses (you do not state the year), look for replaced risers and coolers (trans, fuel oil).

"The current owner said (will bring receipts to survey) that he had the cooling system taken off and cleaned about 2 years ago."
I do not know how to react to this work since the 6C is not know to have cooling issues, finding out why each job was performed on these engines may be revealing of other issues.

On the sea trial the engine tech will ensure that boost and EGT is good as well as confirm full WOT rpm as a brief test. IMHO - at high cruise I would like to see those engines utilizing in the area of about 250 Hp or so (about 50% on the electronic readout if it has one) or about 14 gph per engine if you have fuel flow gages. A bit higher is not such a big deal but utilizing much more than those numbers will not provide a nice long engine life.
I find the C's can generally run at higher loads per cubic inch of engine displacement as the cyl liners provide some safety margin not seen on the 6b,amongst other reasons. Comparing any loading on each of these engines begins with their configuration as they vary on the same relative build by up to 50%. Certainly my opinions on the 6B's rated at 250 hp vary from the ones that are rated at 380 hp.
Posting this question - "Can the Cummins 6b and 6C be run at reasonably the same loading?" on boatdiesel or asking Tony Athens will result in some lively ,interesting, and opinionated responses.

Good luck with your new potential boat..
 
Thank you for the very thoughtful answer, Smitty. I appreciate it very much.

I have a very experienced Cummins marine engine surveyor scheduled to be aboard for this Friday's survey.
 
quote:
Originally posted by JohnC

Walter, you should keep the boat and move it out east for a month or two next summer. You'll have a change of scenery, deeper water, and more options for large slips. You'll probably spend more time on the boat and appreciate the extra space :) The extra driving time isn't bad if you're not doing it all season. Early and late in the season there are more options to go to locally without having to worry about slip space.

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Thanks John, was thinking the same. Our group was thinking Riverhead, easy commute.
 
John,
I think you stay at the Montauk Boat Basin, email me costs? I was thinking Riverhead, but for a month, IMHO it paid to do a season. Twice the cost as a month, but if the month I choose stinks, have options.
 
"Walter, you should keep the boat and move it out east for a month or two next summer. You'll have a change of scenery, deeper water, and more options for large slips. You'll probably spend more time on the boat and appreciate the extra space :) The extra driving time isn't bad if you're not doing it all season. Early and late in the season there are more options to go to locally without having to worry about slip space."

This is a fantastic idea - perhaps you could include Greenport in your research. The town has plenty to do and has many places to eat and entertain, we have stayed at Townsends and Brewers often but would pick Brewers for a full summer ourselves. From there exploring by dinghy of boat you have a lot of possibilities including Shelter Island coves and the dock straight across has a few stores as well. Cruising out of Greenport the potential destinations are all pretty close including but not limited to Montauk, BI, Vineyard, Watch hill, Noank, Mystic, Thames, Essex Hamburgh cove, and many places on the Ct river. Greenport and all these ports are great options that would easily fit your boat.
 
"Thank you for the very thoughtful answer, Smitty. I appreciate it very much."

Your very welcome - good luck.
 
Sea trail and survey today. 32.2 knts or 37 mph with no issues on running. The surveyor noted some salt water crystals on the after coolers and heat exchangers and recommended another cleaning. The most notable issue aside from hose clamps, cracks on hoses etc. was a salt water stream from one of the risers. That will be a point of contention before final purchase price. A new riser or a rebuild of one will not be cheap.
 
Update: Yesterday I got the oil results and one of the engines has coolant in the oil. My mechanic said the only way to find out why is to get into the engine starting with pulling the head.

I walked away from the boat.
 
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