good thoughts though keep in mind that you are able to rent at substantially less than the monthly cost of buying. There is no driving need to buy since there is no appreciation you dont risk loosing out in a rising market. Those savings go into your future down payment when you eventually buy because you find what you really want at the right price. Of course if like so many you spend every cent then buying is probably best long term.
Relocate to Florida in 2 to 7 years
- Thread starter CurrentSea
- Start date
Do not forget that in many (most? if not ALL condos) of these properties there is a third operating cost that is generally as high or higher than taxes and insurance. That third cost is the home owners association dues. These dues typically run many hundreds per month.
I do not know about south Florida, but the panhandle area does not seem to be as badly hit as many other parts of the state. I think here we will see a rebound within 2 years.
G
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2003
- RO Number
- 12212
- Messages
- 12,183
G,
that's what i mentioned further up in the thread. In south Florida, the typical 300k 2/2 condo in a good building (with typical valet, concierge, pool, security, etc..) will cost you about $2500 to $3000 a month between Association Fees, Insurance, Taxes and Interest.
by interest, i mean either interest you pay on a mortgage or interest you woudl be receiving if you invested the money and rented a place instead.
If you rent, you can probably rent that same unit for under $2000 a month... that's at least $1000 a month in savings.
until you can be sure that values will start to significantly increase, it makes NO SENSE to buy.
that's what i mentioned further up in the thread. In south Florida, the typical 300k 2/2 condo in a good building (with typical valet, concierge, pool, security, etc..) will cost you about $2500 to $3000 a month between Association Fees, Insurance, Taxes and Interest.
by interest, i mean either interest you pay on a mortgage or interest you woudl be receiving if you invested the money and rented a place instead.
If you rent, you can probably rent that same unit for under $2000 a month... that's at least $1000 a month in savings.
until you can be sure that values will start to significantly increase, it makes NO SENSE to buy.
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2002
- RO Number
- 10265
- Messages
- 9,958
I often wonder if renting later in life is better than owning. With owning you alway hope for the equity increase, but if there is no chance for equity increase, then renting can make sense.
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2004
- RO Number
- 15005
- Messages
- 601
You might want to think about a house with an ocean access canal. You should be able to get one for the price of what the condos were going for a few years ago. By the time you pay those condo fees and what they want for a slip, your payments would be the about same. Then you don’t have to put up their rules or limited to the size of boat you can have or how many you can have or if you want a little jon boat to run around in. You also have a slip that you don't have to pay more property taxes on since it is part of your home. Pets are covered also.
Sure if you can find the land (not on water right?). Of course I was GC and build my own 4000 sq foot home in Michigan - most subs were a handshake and everything went really well...they showed up, did great work, and charged what they said they would....down here I have to do everything myself. Plumber never shows up or steps through cieling when re-piping something in attic, lawn dude chews up sprinkler heads every week, A/C guy shows up with booz on his breath, Electrician does such a halfazz job the main panel catches on fire in a storm, roofer manages to splatter cement and foam on everything (pool filter, AC units,driveway...)but hey at least he showed up....building a entire house unless you are in the business and have been here for a while would be tough I think.
Great place to live and play BUT if your thinking of having new construction or additional work done ... You must take into consideration that their is no work ethic down here in these Southern areas.
Not to say there are not any good mechanics but usually they are the owners and not the laborers.
Any good Company will provide a list of satisfied customers that can attest to their workmanship and price.
It is good idea to first check the list before you lay out any money
There are many foreclosures available at great prices BUT even those have to checked out by a qualified inspector (black mold)
Still with any drawbacks it IS the greatest place to live!
Not to say there are not any good mechanics but usually they are the owners and not the laborers.
Any good Company will provide a list of satisfied customers that can attest to their workmanship and price.
It is good idea to first check the list before you lay out any money
There are many foreclosures available at great prices BUT even those have to checked out by a qualified inspector (black mold)
Still with any drawbacks it IS the greatest place to live!
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2004
- RO Number
- 13060
- Messages
- 2,554
This is pretty timely for my wife and I since we are heading down the end of Feb to look at some condos in the Pompano Beach area. Our plan is to use it ourselves in the winters now as much as we can, but also to have it available for when I scale back the rat race in 5-6 years.
The other factor that I am hearing about is the history or "special assessments". I have two friends in Pompano in two different buildings. One has had less than $10k in special assessments in the last 10 years. The other has owned his unit for 3 years and had a whopper several multiples of that after the last big hurricanes hit summer before last.
The other factor that I am hearing about is the history or "special assessments". I have two friends in Pompano in two different buildings. One has had less than $10k in special assessments in the last 10 years. The other has owned his unit for 3 years and had a whopper several multiples of that after the last big hurricanes hit summer before last.
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2003
- RO Number
- 12212
- Messages
- 12,183
Mark
Special Assessment can indeed hit you bad, it all comes down to how well the building is run.
It's usually a problem in older buildings as things age and need to be replaced, upgraded, etc... normally, monthly maintenance include reserves for the big things... Roof, elevators, painting, risers, etc... but often owners choose to waive reserves to keep maintenance payments low. i forgot the rules but in FL it takes either a majority or 2/3 votes to waive reserves...
that's fine once in a while, if other things come up that year, but in the long run it can be disastrous. Looking at the buildings history and how the reserves have been funded is a good idea and may help you avoid surprises...
then you may have special assesment because of damages, storm or others.
Some buildings are also better built than others. After Andrew in 92, the building i had a condo in was virtually undamaged even though many units didn't even have shutters (and it was in the north wall of teh cat 5 storm). Others, just a block away suffered heavy damage and were closed for days or weeks while ours had full services restored within 48 hours.
beware of older buildings, especially smaller ones. Those with mandatory shutters are a plus too.
Special Assessment can indeed hit you bad, it all comes down to how well the building is run.
It's usually a problem in older buildings as things age and need to be replaced, upgraded, etc... normally, monthly maintenance include reserves for the big things... Roof, elevators, painting, risers, etc... but often owners choose to waive reserves to keep maintenance payments low. i forgot the rules but in FL it takes either a majority or 2/3 votes to waive reserves...
that's fine once in a while, if other things come up that year, but in the long run it can be disastrous. Looking at the buildings history and how the reserves have been funded is a good idea and may help you avoid surprises...
then you may have special assesment because of damages, storm or others.
Some buildings are also better built than others. After Andrew in 92, the building i had a condo in was virtually undamaged even though many units didn't even have shutters (and it was in the north wall of teh cat 5 storm). Others, just a block away suffered heavy damage and were closed for days or weeks while ours had full services restored within 48 hours.
beware of older buildings, especially smaller ones. Those with mandatory shutters are a plus too.
Just an example of what Bruce is saying, my sister lives in Naples, in a very nice 3BR rented condo, large screened deck, 2 car garage, 2 year old gated/guardhouse development. $1500/mo. They just gave her a free month for reupping for a year. It's a great market for renters, not so much for landlords.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2004
- RO Number
- 13060
- Messages
- 2,554
Walter,
Fortunately (for a buyer) there are so many units for sale that it still makes sense to me IF I can get all of the amenities that I want for the right price. (pool, boat slip, beach access, garage, etc)
Our current plans don't include living there full time, but would be a winter place in 5-6 years when I downsize the house and quit the rat-race. (Maybe get a part-time job servicing the buoys in Merrick) Until then, we would be there for short periods October-May.
Fortunately (for a buyer) there are so many units for sale that it still makes sense to me IF I can get all of the amenities that I want for the right price. (pool, boat slip, beach access, garage, etc)
Our current plans don't include living there full time, but would be a winter place in 5-6 years when I downsize the house and quit the rat-race. (Maybe get a part-time job servicing the buoys in Merrick) Until then, we would be there for short periods October-May.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2000
- RO Number
- 3223
- Messages
- 640
The folks above are correct CurrentSea. Read some articles on the tenant associations in Miami. Most owners live elsewhere. Hence, the tenant associations can do all kinds of interesting things with your money, that you have zero control over. Many tenant associations actually have secret meetings that not even full time residents know about. This is helpful for those running the tenant associations, to hire their relatives and let contracts to family members.
My favorite was the condo we looked at that had a 20K special assessment, to build a marble lobby on the penthouse floor. Oh yeah, we would be using that a lot.
My favorite was the condo we looked at that had a 20K special assessment, to build a marble lobby on the penthouse floor. Oh yeah, we would be using that a lot.
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2003
- RO Number
- 12212
- Messages
- 12,183
interesting article in the local business paper about the condo meltdown.
Lenders are black listing dozens of building, incl. many in so fl for reasons like declining values, high foreclosure rates and high investor ratio... It's going to have a dramatic impact on values in these buildings over the next few months. Lists vary by lender, some are stricter than others but when buildings appear on multiple lists owners have virtually no hope of selling.
http://www.dailybusinessreview.com/news.html?news_id=47126
At least one well known recent condo is out of cable service because the association cant' pay the bill due to 25 to 30% foreclosure rate and word is that they're about to loose water.
Lenders are black listing dozens of building, incl. many in so fl for reasons like declining values, high foreclosure rates and high investor ratio... It's going to have a dramatic impact on values in these buildings over the next few months. Lists vary by lender, some are stricter than others but when buildings appear on multiple lists owners have virtually no hope of selling.
http://www.dailybusinessreview.com/news.html?news_id=47126
At least one well known recent condo is out of cable service because the association cant' pay the bill due to 25 to 30% foreclosure rate and word is that they're about to loose water.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2000
- RO Number
- 3223
- Messages
- 640
Thanks for posting that Pascal. You get a public service award. <gg>
I recall during the early 90s condo bust in New York, many just mailed in their keys and walked away.
For those that stayed, their condo association fees skyrocketed, to make up for the disappeared cash flow from all the empty units. Some really great investment opportunities were there, just as the condo market started improving. My problem was that I could not stomach to gamble that the huge condo association fees would come down once more units were occupied. Sometimes they did, sometimes they did not.
I recall during the early 90s condo bust in New York, many just mailed in their keys and walked away.
For those that stayed, their condo association fees skyrocketed, to make up for the disappeared cash flow from all the empty units. Some really great investment opportunities were there, just as the condo market started improving. My problem was that I could not stomach to gamble that the huge condo association fees would come down once more units were occupied. Sometimes they did, sometimes they did not.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2006
- RO Number
- 20033
- Messages
- 326
I have lived here for 13 years, and after seeing Florida turn in to a "rich only nation", the Admiral and I are selling in 5 years(after the kids graduate) and we will be downtown renters! The rents are good and much cheaper than buying and maintaining a house or condo. This way, I can walk down to the marina and go on my boat at will. Invest my money from the sale of my home and of coarse buy a bigger boat. I dont agree with the analogy of cheap homes in 5 years, I would not wait too much longer if you wanted to buy the deals are out there now. Florida has allways been and allways will be the playground for those who enjoy warm weather all year long. The housing market will recover in the next year, and I have not seen many prices dropping much lower here in Sarasota. If you want to live in the "sunshine" , you have to be willing and able to pay for it! I still think it's worth it because as far as I am concerned, Florida offers some of the best boating grounds in the country. (weather and water)
Mark,
Email me you considerations for FL. My gut tells me FL is getting out of control, would love to be proved wrong because that would be my first choice because of the weather. The Carolinas is the game now IMHO on the east coast.
Ocean,
"I have lived here for 13 years, and after seeing Florida turn in to a "rich only nation", the Admiral and I are selling in 5 years (after the kids graduate) and we will be downtown renters! The rents are good and much cheaper than buying and maintaining a house or condo."
Think about what you just said, how can that continue, it won't. If a buyer has to subsidize his investment, it is not an investment. What you are seeing now is a last ditch effort for these landlords to hold on to what they have. That is why the rental aspect is less than ownership. There will be a time when this will settle down and as a renter you will be paying more than if you own a place.
You need to step back and look at what I am saying.
Walter
Email me you considerations for FL. My gut tells me FL is getting out of control, would love to be proved wrong because that would be my first choice because of the weather. The Carolinas is the game now IMHO on the east coast.
Ocean,
"I have lived here for 13 years, and after seeing Florida turn in to a "rich only nation", the Admiral and I are selling in 5 years (after the kids graduate) and we will be downtown renters! The rents are good and much cheaper than buying and maintaining a house or condo."
Think about what you just said, how can that continue, it won't. If a buyer has to subsidize his investment, it is not an investment. What you are seeing now is a last ditch effort for these landlords to hold on to what they have. That is why the rental aspect is less than ownership. There will be a time when this will settle down and as a renter you will be paying more than if you own a place.
You need to step back and look at what I am saying.
Walter