Report dangerous licensed water taxi captain?
- Thread starter mixman
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2007
- RO Number
- 25362
- Messages
- 3,996
Heh. That's about the limit of my artistic skills! When I get a chance I'll take a screen capture of my GPS track and see if I can't get that new fancy unit to document just how close to that seawall I was. If I wasn't busy trying to avoid a collision I would have done a screen capture with radar overlaid which would have shown the situation and the fact that to my port side there wasn't any traffic at all.
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2007
- RO Number
- 25362
- Messages
- 3,996
I would say "curiosity" more than "frustration" with your input. It's no big deal. I did my responsibility and avoided a collision. No harm, just a foul-mouthed idiotic taxi captain. I expect nothing else from that company. THe only two questions I have from your comments are:
1 - Regardless of whether my upcoming turn to starboard is justified as a warning signal, should he have acknowledged and heeded it?
2 - You still haven't pointed me to the rule about "turn signals" on boats.
As for #1, you and I read the rules differently I suppose. I take things very literally. The wording of the rule: "If, however, from any cause, the vessel doubts the safety of the proposed maneuver" to me means that if I'm about to turn in front of you, there's danger. I will be frustrated if you say that the taxi jock was correct in "ordering me" to do what he wanted as opposed to what I, as the stand-on vessel, was doing.
Nothing was done today as I was slammed at the office. It is fully documented and I'll get to it when I can. I fully expect nothing at all to come of it. The best one can hope for is documentation of an idiotic move.
I've avoided Thie jump in like the plague......
Wrong....
Not you Jim. The precept..... The last time I was in B'more harbor was 30+ years ago. I was with several fellow naval officer friends. We all winced at the same situation and grabbed our kids expecting the worst. What has changed? We failed. . The problem existed then w/ x boats. Now the same problem exists w/ x+ boats in the same area and a pass is in order? I hate Gov't regs. However, the if the slime cannot police itself.....so be it....as much as I hate it the gov.'t should step in ( perhaps that's the reason they did not in the first place.........food for thought!, )
In the end......... You get the government you want!
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2007
- RO Number
- 25362
- Messages
- 3,996
I get along with decent people just fine, thank you. I expect "wrong" from recreational boaters. I expect "correct" from "professionals". His two mistakes were not following the rules and then trying to tell me I don't know the rules. He was the one with 20 or so paying passengers. His boss will be hearing from me. I'll get over it when I'm good and ready to. As I said above, I tracked down the jerk SF jock in Ft. Lauderdale a few months ago and got into it with him. Once he acknowledged he was wrong I backed off. I simply asked him to please not do it to anybody else.
If somebody doesn't speak up, jerks won't stop being jerks.
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2008
- RO Number
- 29390
- Messages
- 313
Kurt, we have spent a fair bit of time in the inner harbor lately. A few observations and comments. The speed limit is 6 mph, but the water taxis always do at least 8 mph. To quote a harbor police boat, if you are going faster than a water taxi, then you are going too fast. Where he went on your stbd side, they always cut that section close, way outside of the channel.
When we are in our big boat, I always stay in the marked channel and have never has any problem with the water taxis, they seem to yield more and follow appropriate protocols when we are in the big boat. Also, having a flybridge gives good visibility, so when making a turn I have good visibility and would generally see someone coming up on me, and wait or yield before turning as a mater of practice.
On the other hand, when in the 30 hp RIB, I would never get near one of those water taxis, regardless of right of way. They have no respect for smaller boats and there are a lot of 20-24 footers that I am sure they view as getting in their way. They are consistent in their behavior and speed.
My opinion (you asked...) is that I would not file a complaint because the "captain" of the water taxi will claim you weren't paying attention as he has the right of way if you were turning to stbd. He will say he was stand on vessel as you "crossed" his path and he further signaled that he was doing a port side pass when you "unexpectedly" crossed his path.
When we are in our big boat, I always stay in the marked channel and have never has any problem with the water taxis, they seem to yield more and follow appropriate protocols when we are in the big boat. Also, having a flybridge gives good visibility, so when making a turn I have good visibility and would generally see someone coming up on me, and wait or yield before turning as a mater of practice.
On the other hand, when in the 30 hp RIB, I would never get near one of those water taxis, regardless of right of way. They have no respect for smaller boats and there are a lot of 20-24 footers that I am sure they view as getting in their way. They are consistent in their behavior and speed.
My opinion (you asked...) is that I would not file a complaint because the "captain" of the water taxi will claim you weren't paying attention as he has the right of way if you were turning to stbd. He will say he was stand on vessel as you "crossed" his path and he further signaled that he was doing a port side pass when you "unexpectedly" crossed his path.
Salvatore356
Member
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2012
- RO Number
- 32937
- Messages
- 238
Pascual, I am surprise that you think you did nothing wrong. 200' is not a safe distance to be, so where he was on you, you was in the danger zone or the give away vessel.Danger (Give-Way) Zone
Danger Zone
The green sector on your boat, that sector defined by your green sidelight, is your Danger Zone or your Give-Way Zone.
This extends from the centreline on your bow (dead ahead) to 22.5º abaft the starboard beam, or 112.5º from the bow, along your starboard side.
When another skipper sees your green light, he has the right of way...green for go. When you have a boat in your green sector, you must take early and substantial action to avoid collision.
Danger Zone
The green sector on your boat, that sector defined by your green sidelight, is your Danger Zone or your Give-Way Zone.
This extends from the centreline on your bow (dead ahead) to 22.5º abaft the starboard beam, or 112.5º from the bow, along your starboard side.
When another skipper sees your green light, he has the right of way...green for go. When you have a boat in your green sector, you must take early and substantial action to avoid collision.
Here ya go, I'll be first to admit I rarely use them.
RULE 34
Maneuvering and Warning Signals
(a) When vessels are in sight of one another, a power-driven vessel
underway, when maneuvering as authorized or required by these Rules,
shall indicate that maneuver by the following signals on her whistle:
#8722; one short blast to mean “I am altering my course to starboard”;
#8722; two short blasts to mean “I am altering my course to port”;
#8722; three short blasts to mean “I am operating astern propulsion”.
(b) Any vessel may supplement the whistle signals prescribed in
paragraph (a) of this Rule by light signals, repeated as appropriate, while
the maneuver is being carried out
RULE 34
Maneuvering and Warning Signals
(a) When vessels are in sight of one another, a power-driven vessel
underway, when maneuvering as authorized or required by these Rules,
shall indicate that maneuver by the following signals on her whistle:
#8722; one short blast to mean “I am altering my course to starboard”;
#8722; two short blasts to mean “I am altering my course to port”;
#8722; three short blasts to mean “I am operating astern propulsion”.
(b) Any vessel may supplement the whistle signals prescribed in
paragraph (a) of this Rule by light signals, repeated as appropriate, while
the maneuver is being carried out
Be careful of simplistic reading and application of the Navigation Rules. "Farwell's Rules of the Nautical Road" should be on everyones winter reading list as it explains the Navigation Rules in detail and includes the legal cases and rulings by the US Federal District Courts, on how the Rules are interpreted by the courts. In this case the first mistake made by BOTH VESSELS was the failure use the VHf radio to propose and agree upon the overtaking. Just because you think the other boat does not use the radio, does not give you license to violate the rules and not use the VHf. Go ahead and make the radio call, even if the other vessel does not respond. If a collision occurs, after you make the radio call, the USCG recording of channel 16 will show that you were attempting to make an overtaking agreement to avoid the risk of collision.
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2003
- RO Number
- 12212
- Messages
- 12,214
Around here, here in the real world, you are usually following other boats at distances closer than 200'... Too many boats. 200' is plenty safe at hull speed or below.
Your simplistic explanation of "right of way", green and red sectors leaves out one important fact: the stand on vessel must maintain course and sped, not suddenly make a u turn in the path of another vessel.
Now maybe I missed the part in the rules which defines the action of a vessel that has the right of way.
Or maybe that is the reason why that vessel is called STAND ON not right of way,
Rule 34 (Inland) sub section (c) states:
(c) When in sight of one another:
(i) a power-driven vessel intending to overtake another power-driven vessel shall indicate her intention by the following signals on her whistle:
one short blast to mean "I intend to overtake you on your starboard side"
two short blasts to mean "I intend to overtake you on your port side".
(ii) the power-driven vessel about to be overtaken shall, if in agreement, sound a similar signal. If in doubt she shall sound the danger signal prescribed in Rule 34(d).
Bruce you copied the International Rule 34 which is not applicable to the waters of Baltimore Harbor.
(c) When in sight of one another:
(i) a power-driven vessel intending to overtake another power-driven vessel shall indicate her intention by the following signals on her whistle:
one short blast to mean "I intend to overtake you on your starboard side"
two short blasts to mean "I intend to overtake you on your port side".
(ii) the power-driven vessel about to be overtaken shall, if in agreement, sound a similar signal. If in doubt she shall sound the danger signal prescribed in Rule 34(d).
Bruce you copied the International Rule 34 which is not applicable to the waters of Baltimore Harbor.
Salvatore356
Member
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2012
- RO Number
- 32937
- Messages
- 238
Pascal your wrong stand on and right of way is the same.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2000
- RO Number
- 824
- Messages
- 2,405
Oh boy, this topic is about to get sporty...
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2007
- RO Number
- 25362
- Messages
- 3,996
I'm trying to learn here, so I appreciate all the comments. I got the one "blast", I didn't agree, I gave 5 "blasts" the captain ignored me and proceeded
to give me another 1 "blast". Who was right and who was wrong? I'm going to say that in the end I was "right" as I avoided the collision. That's the primary rule, isn't it?
to give me another 1 "blast". Who was right and who was wrong? I'm going to say that in the end I was "right" as I avoided the collision. That's the primary rule, isn't it?
Keith:
You are correct here is the inland rule 34 I don't see any difference in the first section. Again Kurt would be required to signal his intention to turn as the vessels were in sight.
I still do not see any provision anywhere where one skipper can stop another from doing something.
He can acknowledge the signal and agree or signal disagreement but nowhere does it say he can take command of the others actions as Kurt implies.
—INLAND—
Sound and Light Signals
RULE 34
Maneuvering and Warning Signals
(a) When power-driven vessels are in sight of one another and meeting or
crossing at a distance within half a mile of each other, each vessel
underway, when maneuvering as authorized or required by these Rules:
(i) shall indicate that maneuver by the following signals on her whistle:
one short blast to mean “I intend to leave you on my port side”; two
short blasts to mean “I intend to leave you on my starboard side”; and
three short blasts to mean “I am operating astern propulsion”.
(ii) upon hearing the one or two blast signal of the other shall, if in
agreement, sound the same whistle signal and take the steps
necessary to effect a safe passing. If, however, from any cause, the
vessel doubts the safety of the proposed maneuver, she shall sound
the danger signal specified in paragraph (d) of this Rule and each
vessel shall take appropriate precautionary action until a safe passing
agreement is made.
(b) A vessel may supplement
.............. continues
You are correct here is the inland rule 34 I don't see any difference in the first section. Again Kurt would be required to signal his intention to turn as the vessels were in sight.
I still do not see any provision anywhere where one skipper can stop another from doing something.
He can acknowledge the signal and agree or signal disagreement but nowhere does it say he can take command of the others actions as Kurt implies.
—INLAND—
Sound and Light Signals
RULE 34
Maneuvering and Warning Signals
(a) When power-driven vessels are in sight of one another and meeting or
crossing at a distance within half a mile of each other, each vessel
underway, when maneuvering as authorized or required by these Rules:
(i) shall indicate that maneuver by the following signals on her whistle:
one short blast to mean “I intend to leave you on my port side”; two
short blasts to mean “I intend to leave you on my starboard side”; and
three short blasts to mean “I am operating astern propulsion”.
(ii) upon hearing the one or two blast signal of the other shall, if in
agreement, sound the same whistle signal and take the steps
necessary to effect a safe passing. If, however, from any cause, the
vessel doubts the safety of the proposed maneuver, she shall sound
the danger signal specified in paragraph (d) of this Rule and each
vessel shall take appropriate precautionary action until a safe passing
agreement is made.
(b) A vessel may supplement
.............. continues
The ONLY right any boater has is to own, rent, or operate a boat and be on the water. In the Navigation Rules "It is also important for you to know that the Rules grant no vessel the right of way except when downbound in certain narrow channels of the inland waters" and those exceptional water will be marked on the charts.
If you are using the term "Right of Way" you are at least 30 years behind in keeping a valid, up-to-date copy of the Navigation Rules and knowing them. There is no Right of Way, there are only Duties and Responsibilities.
If you are using the term "Right of Way" you are at least 30 years behind in keeping a valid, up-to-date copy of the Navigation Rules and knowing them. There is no Right of Way, there are only Duties and Responsibilities.