My brother had a 1995 Carver 355 with Crusader 454s and BW Velvet Drive 5000 transmissions. He had his boat disassembled and trucked to South Carolina then reassembled at the new boat yard. When they 1st moved the boat under power, forward was reverse and reverse was forward. The mechanic assumed the shifter cables were reversed so he reversed them and all was good. In case you're not familiar with Crusaders and transmissions of that era, both engines are standard rotation and counter rotation is done by reversing the linkage on one transmission. So, one transmission is always running in reverse when running forward. He rand the boat for several hours with no problems. Fast forward 2 years and he sells the boat. The prospective owner performed a seatrial and all was good with the engines and performance. He did not have a survey done and declined to have the boat pulled to complete a survey. He ran the boat to Florida and shortly there after, blew both transmissions. Turns out the props were put on wrong, left was right and vice versa. Now he sues my brother for the cost of the transmissions. He claims my brother should have known the props were wrong. The boat was never pulled out of the water after the initial launch and a diver cleaned the hull and props routinely. I have two problems with this: first, he declined to have a survey done where that error would have been found and corrected. Second, if one transmission is always running in reverse, why would it matter to the engines and transmissions which prop was where. What do you guys think? I'd say bring on your law suit and pay my costs when you lose.
Reversed shifter cables?
- Thread starter Gregory S
- Start date
Perfect example of how surveys protect the seller too (been frustrated by seller who have refused survey/sea trials). Did your brother suggest a survey? Assuming the bill of sale/contract said "as is" the guy's lawsuit is toast. Especially if he refused to do a survey. Not sure how he would find an attorney to take it. Unfortunately, your bother will likely have to eat is own legal costs.
Yes, he definitely advised him to do a haul out and survey. Still don't understand how the prop reversal would cause a problem. Don"t know what the bill of sale specified. I'll ask. Thanks Golfman. Happy Easter!
I know the manual for my BW transmission warns that you cannot run it in reverse like this or the trans will fail. I think it’s a model 71 (I might have that wrong) and I have no clue if the 5000 can do this. If the reversal is the cause for the failure, why didn’t they fail for your brother?
The propellers were reversed, right was on the left and left was on the right. the first time the boat was moved under it's own power, forward shifts and boat moved in reverse. Shifters moved to reverse and the boat moved forward. The mechanic assumed as the console was just reinstalled that the shifter cables were reversed. he switched the cables and the boat moved in the correct direction with regards to shifter position.
These are not BW 71s. They are BW 5000s. Both engines are standard rotation and counter rotation is achieved by running one transmission in reverse to move that prop forward. I believe that is not the case for series 71s as with those transmissions, one engine is standard rotation and the other is counter rotating. I assume they didn't fail for him as one transmission is always running in reverse to get forward movement with that prop and that is the normal setup with series 5000 transmissions. My boat runs the same way. when you look at the transmission linkage, one is always in reverse when both shifters are forward. All I know is that when the new owner pulled the boat in Fla to have the transmissions replaced, they immediately saw the props were on the wrong sides.
Ddurand, the boat ran properly because the mechanic switched the shifter cables thinking that they made a mistake when they reassembled the boat and thinking they had the port shifter cable on the starboard shifter and vice versa. If there is more to the story, neither my brother nor I know it yet!
These are not BW 71s. They are BW 5000s. Both engines are standard rotation and counter rotation is achieved by running one transmission in reverse to move that prop forward. I believe that is not the case for series 71s as with those transmissions, one engine is standard rotation and the other is counter rotating. I assume they didn't fail for him as one transmission is always running in reverse to get forward movement with that prop and that is the normal setup with series 5000 transmissions. My boat runs the same way. when you look at the transmission linkage, one is always in reverse when both shifters are forward. All I know is that when the new owner pulled the boat in Fla to have the transmissions replaced, they immediately saw the props were on the wrong sides.
Ddurand, the boat ran properly because the mechanic switched the shifter cables thinking that they made a mistake when they reassembled the boat and thinking they had the port shifter cable on the starboard shifter and vice versa. If there is more to the story, neither my brother nor I know it yet!
So what it sounds like to me is that when they originally tested the repair, the boat actually ran in forward but the prop made it reverse. When they switched the shifter cables, the boat ran in reverse but the props made the boat go forward. And that is how the dude brought it home.
But here is the operative sentence as far as I'm concerned: "All I know is that when the new owner pulled the boat in Fla to have the transmissions replaced, they immediately saw the props were on the wrong sides." Had the guy done his due diligence and pulled the boat during survey, he would have seen the error. He did not -- judgment to for the defendant. Case closed.
Well if the suit actually states "should" have known he's got an idiot for a lawyer. I think you're going to have to prove actual knowledge and an attempt to hide the truth the from plaintiff, none of which sound like they exist here. Judgement still for the defendant.
After the props were installed on the wrong shafts, "The boat ran fine"? I'd be surprised to hear that. I agree the transmission running in reverse is not a problem (my boat is the same way, standard engines, switch Forward/Reverse as needed).
I would think props on backwards would cause an issue. Then again, a novice boat neighbor did the same thing, put his props on backwards. When he realized this, he took a 20 mile trip with family and friends using the shifters in reverse. Again he was a rookie, new to him boat so I don't know how bad/good it ran but he was content and able to get on plane.
In any event, your brother is fine! Sounds like an honest mistake, granted it really happened (I assume so since the mechanic switched BOTH cables). Buyer beware. Either the boat was running at proper RPM and speed or it wasn't. Obviously it was running fine when the buyer took delivery. Did BOTH transmissions really go at the same time again, did that REALLY happen? If I was your brother, I would ask his attorney to draft a letter saying "sorry but not my problem". Some people panic at the idea of "I'm going to sue you"....no need to. Stick with the facts, don't panic, let common sense be your guide.
PS - If the transmissions are designed to allow F/R why would they fail? You'd think the engines would fail instead...unable to achieve proper RPM at WOT. I'm getting more suspicious of the buyer as I write this. He might be fishing for $$$.
I would think props on backwards would cause an issue. Then again, a novice boat neighbor did the same thing, put his props on backwards. When he realized this, he took a 20 mile trip with family and friends using the shifters in reverse. Again he was a rookie, new to him boat so I don't know how bad/good it ran but he was content and able to get on plane.
In any event, your brother is fine! Sounds like an honest mistake, granted it really happened (I assume so since the mechanic switched BOTH cables). Buyer beware. Either the boat was running at proper RPM and speed or it wasn't. Obviously it was running fine when the buyer took delivery. Did BOTH transmissions really go at the same time again, did that REALLY happen? If I was your brother, I would ask his attorney to draft a letter saying "sorry but not my problem". Some people panic at the idea of "I'm going to sue you"....no need to. Stick with the facts, don't panic, let common sense be your guide.
PS - If the transmissions are designed to allow F/R why would they fail? You'd think the engines would fail instead...unable to achieve proper RPM at WOT. I'm getting more suspicious of the buyer as I write this. He might be fishing for $$$.
That's all I know Walshie. Both engines standard rotation and BW 5000 C transmissions, one always running backward to achieve counter rotation. Don't know if both transmissions failed together. Buyer refused a haulout and survey trying to save a few hundred dollars. Apparently he felt a survey wasn't needed after the seatrial! He did do a sea trial with the broker and I have to assume the boat performed according to specs or questions would have been raised then. My brother's attorney filed a motion to dismiss but I don't know the outcome of that.
I have to believe your brother will be fine with his motion to dismiss.
If the buyer was nice about it, I would probably throw him a few dollars to relieve myself of guilt. But by bringing a lawsuit, that window has closed.
Think about it, how many other people touched this issue:
Good luck!
If the buyer was nice about it, I would probably throw him a few dollars to relieve myself of guilt. But by bringing a lawsuit, that window has closed.
Think about it, how many other people touched this issue:
- The yard that re-assembled in South Carolina (this is where the mistake happened)
- The mechanic who switched the F/R cables
- Your brother used the boat for some time, owned it for two years
- The new owner took it for a sea trial
- The broker was on the sea trial
- The damn boat made it to Florida!!
- Finally the transmissions gave way
Good luck!
yep, props reversed. Boat was not hauled out of the water for about 3 years until the new owner hauled it out in Fla. A diver did the bottom and running gear every 6 weeks or so. He never noticed the props were reversed either so we can add him to the list of people that touched the issue.
I was thinking about this some more.....the boat is a 1995, 37 years old, the transmission could go at any time!
Did the new owner check fluids and top-off before the long trip? Sorry but there's way too much that could have contributed to this issue than reversal of props 3 years ago. I'm sure your brother will be fine....the buyer's attorney is the reason many people don't like attorneys....frivolous.
Did the new owner check fluids and top-off before the long trip? Sorry but there's way too much that could have contributed to this issue than reversal of props 3 years ago. I'm sure your brother will be fine....the buyer's attorney is the reason many people don't like attorneys....frivolous.
I don’t know what the new owner did before his trip. If I had to guess, I’d say he fired up the engines and left for Fla. agree, a frivolous law suit. That being said, it’s going to cost a few dollars to defend against.