Scupper

A

awboater

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2006
RO Number
20676
Messages
195
We have owned our 325 for two years now, and I honestly don't know why I didn't think of this before.

I have two thru-hulls at the transom that I think are not the best design, because they are awfully close to the water line.

update3.jpg


These are factory installed, and as you can see, the thruhulls are pretty close to the waterline. The most bothersome is the one on the left - as it is lower than the other, and it goes down to the aft cabin bilge pump.

The one on the right goes up to the sink.

Upon closer inspection, it appears that the left thru-hull was designed for a scupper, as it has 4 screw holes in it. Again, its to the left side of the photo (the other thru-hull is a wire flange for the speed/temp transducer).

I am not sure if a scupper was originally screwed into the thruhull and it fell off or not, as the boat was 11 years old when we bought it. But with the 4 screw holes in the surface of the thru hull sure seems like its intended for a scupper.

update4.jpg


But I have not been able to find a scupper in that size. They are typically larger. I think I might have found one that may fit.

I found this (and ordered it today), which is made by Seachoice, and is their small scupper, for 3/4" to 1 1/2" openings. All of the others I have seen are 2 3/4" dia, which is too large for the thru hull.

SCP18271.jpg


I don't know why Carver decided to put the thru hulls so close to the waterline.

Anyway, Ramsport or anyone, have you ever seen scuppers on this fitting?

I am considering having the marina fill the holes and relocate the thru-hulls. Even if they discharged from the underside of the swim platform, it would be a huge improvement.
 
awboater...I never have seen a scupper on that fitting...I also have never seen Carver use that fitting. We have a 1997 325 in stock..I will check it out tomorrow to see what ours has back there. There treally isn't much harm going to happen if you leave them where they are. While you're running, they are way above the water, and while at rest, they are only wet occasionally, if that.

SLW...Carver (usually) does put loops in overboard drains...even on mine, I can show them to you (in a month or so)
 
a month seems like a year at this point!

I'd be very concerned if there's not a loop there. The weight of one good "Cedar Point-style" party would send that boat to the bottom. If there IS a loop, I'd make sure the hose is secure and leave it at that.
 
Thanks RAM.

I know that Carver puts loops in the drains, as mine do have them. But I'll double check the bilge fitting.

As I said, I am not quite as concerned with the sink drain (right thru-hull), but the hose goes down then up.

Regardless, there is a small leak in the sink drain at the inside of the thru hull. The hose is somewhat of a corregated or ribbed hose, and its not making good contact (or maybe its loose).

I discovered this last year when the boat was in the water, but I did not want to chance tightnening the hose clamp as Murphy's Law sez I'd probably snap it off. So at least for the sink fitting, its a pre-launch maintenance item. And as while I am in the area, I figured I'd improve the bilge fitting as well.
 
I usually take hundreds of photos of my boat, whenever I am in a particular area. Makes a nice reference. Unfortunately, I don't have a photo of the bilge pump thru-hull (the one with the strange screw holes in it).

Here is a photo of the sink. The corregated hose isn't making good contact with the thru-hull which is why it is leaking.

I might just replace the hose.

sink6.jpg


Another thought I had was to put a "tall" loop up in the hose - which would make it higher than the sink. If I did that, I'd have to mount a sump pump below the sink.

I dunno, maybe I am just a bit over concerned, but it seems like you could sink a boat under the right conditions.
 
Take a look at how high your sink is compared to the water line. With or without a loop, the sink would need to be lower then the water line for water to back up into the sink. If you install a loop higher then the sink Of course the sink will not drain and then adding a sump to push the water over the loop, creates a cleaning problem. Carver likes installing shower sumps, these collect hair, sand or what ever you wash off your self, then you have to clean it to keep it from plugging and preventing smells. Loops will do the same, dirty water gets trapped between the sink and the loop, dirt settles and slows or plugs the water from draining. I guess, I would make sure my hoses are tight and see how high my sink is. The other fitting for the bilge should have the loop just inside before the thru-hull. You don't want water to run down hill in this case. I get more concerned about water inlets, for my engines and head, gosh what if one of those started leaking...That's what a big bilge pump is for!!!!!!
 
I agree that these thru-hulls that are close to the water leave something to be desired. Boats do take on water sometimes, can sink lower in the water and submerge that thru-hull, and then all of a sudden you're relying on that plastic hose and its clamp to keep you afloat, because you'd need one HELL of a bilge pump to overcome the inflow of water if that drain hose ever came loose at the wrong time!!!

On the other hand, it usually doesn't happen. But it CAN happen. A lot of those racing type boats whose transoms almost look awash because of the weight of the engines do sink like that - they get full of water in a rainstorm and the scuppers go under, and down they go. My 21' Glastron V-215 has the same problem (even though its not a racing boat) because the cockpit drain scuppers are only 1" above the waterline on a good day. I remember the first time I put the boat on a ramp as I backed it into the water. Usually you'd open up the motorwell, fire the boat up and check everything out. Well when I did there was water everywhere! It took awhile to realize where it was all coming from. Now I am sure to only back the boat in far enough to submerge the water pickup, start and warm up the engine, and then put it the rest of the way into the water quickly so I don't get a bilge full of water before backing the damn thing all the way in...
 
Okay...I went and looked at our stock '97. Yours has an extra hole awboater. The hole that your transducer wire is going thru...used to be for the bilge pump outlet. The hole that is now for the bilge pump (with the foour screw holes) doesn't exist on our boat. The sink drain is in the same place. What are those (2) diamnd shaped screw hole patterns from? It almost looks like the boat had platform supports at one point in time
 
Thanks Ram for your help.

The previous owner had installed different sensors on the boat's transom. The three screw pattern is where I patched the holes with epoxy and filler where the sensor wire thru-hulls were, before I painted over them. One sensor went out the right side of the boat for the paddlewheel, and the other went out the left side for the depth transducer.

I replaced the depth finder with a DSM300 so I got rid of this shabby installation. Always improving the boat, you know...

update1a.jpg


Luckily when I pulled the screws for the old sensors, even the below-waterline ones, there was no water in them. Sorry for the out of focus photo, but here is an example of how I installed the screws for the new sensor.

update1.jpg


I drilled the holes larger than needed, filled the holes with West System epoxy and filler, let it cure, then drilled again the right size. This puts an epoxy barrier all around the screw, and keeps from getting the balsa core wet.

And when I patched the holes that I did not reuse, such as those triangle ones you mentioned, I painted rather than gel-coated over the repair job, as no one will ever see it, and the gel-coat gets awfully dirty there anyway due to exhaust and water staining.

The current transducer cable goes through a cable clam that I installed - not a plumbing thru-hull. There was nothing in that area previously.

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This clam is made by Blue Sea, and I guess it does look a bit like a scupper, but it would not work as one.

You are saying that the newer boats have the bilge pump discharge where the transducer flange is now?
 
they must have changed the installation of the bilge overboard from '95 to '97. Good job on the patching...most wouldn't know to do all of that, I'm glad you do!
 
I always do research to try and do the proper job. So many boat-projects are hack jobs, but I try to improve the boat when I do something with it.
 
I found a photo of my boat's innards showing that the thru hull has a 90deg elbow pointing up - where the arrow is. So unless the elbow lets go, its probably safe.

bilgeout.jpg


But I might try to install a scupper as well if I can find one. Otherwise, I'll look at the boat again to confirm how high the hose goes.
 
Well its nicer weather and I got to work on the boat some.

I started with replacing the hose - remember this one that leaked and is only 3" above the waterline?

sink6.jpg


When I pulled the hose, incredibly the thru hull is a 1" barb, and the hose is 1.5". Now I am no expert, but I don't think any amount of tightening down a hose clamp would keep it from leaking. Furthermore, the sink end is just a cheap walmart tail piece that is cut off. It is 1.25 dia, and while closer, it still leaked.

I cannot imagine Carver would do such a thing. While it is possible that the prevous owner did this, I'll be able to confirm it by looking at the other two sink drains on the boat and see if they are the same.

So I bought a 1" hose to go on the thru-hull, and have ordered a 1" drain fitting.
 
AWBOATER - Is that pink bottom paint?
 
Pink bottom.... yea, I guess it does look a bit pink in that photo.

Its Interlux VC-17 bottom paint. It goes on copper-color. Here is a more descriptive photo:

pink.jpg


After about 2 weeks of immersion in the water, the copper oxidizes and turns a brown/black color. (you can also see the new davits I installed over the weekend).

davits1.jpg


Here is a photo of the boat the previous weekend - before we bottom painted it. The black/brown bottom color is what the copper oxidizes to. m Pretty wierd stuff, eh?

VC-17 is some pretty amazing stuff. Its mostly a fresh-water bottom paint, and is quite popular in the Great Lakes area. It is effective deterrent for Zebra Mussels and other growth typical in fresh water.

http://www.yachtpaint.com/usa//product_guide/antifouling/US_VC17m_with_biolux.asp?ComponentID=20129&SourcePageID=6631#1

I don't think it is recommended for salt-water.

Since many of you might not be familiar with it, I'll describe it a bit.

First, its not compatible with any other kind of bottom paint. So if you go VC-17, the bottom has to be properly prepped. This usually requires an epoxy barrier coat or a bonding coat such as VC-Tar.

For this reason, going to VC-17 usually costs you a lot, because a marina has to strip the bottom, then apply the barrier coat. The price tag is usually in the $4K to $7K range. The previous owner had already done this, so it was one of the selling points when we bought the boat.

VC-17 is purchased in quart cans, and has a clear liquid with a bag of dry copper powder. You mix the copper with the liquid, shake it up, then paint. It evaporates very quickly, and in 70 degree weather, you can watch it literally dry in seconds after rolling it on.

It also goes on paper-thin. There is no buildup as there is with other bottom paints such as hard epoxies. So you can add paint for 100 years without weighing down the boat.

It took about 2 1/2 quarts to bottom paint our boat, and it actually goes on much easier than regular bottom paint. I did the entire bottom in maybe an hour or so.

Prepping the bottom couldn't be more easy. You don't have to sand it - just power wash the bottom so its clean, and it bonds nicely to the prevous layer.

Its a low drag paint, and has teflon in it, and it might be the only bottom paint that can actually improve the boat's speed. The prevous owner indicated he picked up one kt. when going from conventional bottom paint to VC-17. For that reason, about 90% of the sailboats on the Great Lakes use it, and maybe 10% of the power boats.

You can buy it in three colors; "Original" which is a brown/black color (which is what I use), Blue, or Red. Regardless of the color you buy, it goes on copper-color. But I think there are some pigments in the paint that make the copper oxidize the different colors, as the real color shows up 2 weeks after immersion.

Sorry for being long-winded, but it is such a unique paint.
 
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