Sealing the windows ... what do you use?

D

DLL

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We replaced all the windows in our Tolly 44 about 6 years ago and learned a lot. Now we have a window that has developed a leak. It is about 7 feet long and a foot high. Lifting it is not a problem (weight wise).

The manufacturer gave us some foam with glue on one side, saying to use that to seal it.
I was leaning towards a good silicone sealant that stays pliable, etc. Anyone done this lately? Are they any new products I should know about? Suggestions welcomed.
 
Slider or stationary?

Pix would help. May need to be re-bedded. I never heard of anybody using glazing compound on a boat. Doesn't mean it has not been done though.
 
The window FRAME is stationary, with two windows that slide within the frame.
 
Two things come to mind. The weep holes are clogged or the track needs replacing. If the weep hole, easily fixed with a drill bit and a garden hose. This is a classic problem.

If it is not the weep hole, consider replacing the "U" weatherstripping. Classic car window weatherstripping is much cheaper than marine. They both appear to be the same.
 
Weep holes? Good idea, that is one spot I did not think of. I don't think the area the window slides in would be worn out yet, but I will check it. Thanks again, Dave
 
Glazing compound?

The manufacturer of the windows suggested Butyl (spelling??). Hard to find, but I bought some tubes and used it where he said to do it. Those windows haven't leaked, so I guess he knew what he was talking about.

They made all the original Tollycraft windows, as well as several other manufacturers windows, doors, etc. But I heard they are out of business now. Guess the stimulus package didn't help them.
 
I don't know if you've already fixed your current problem or if it's still open.

You can google butyl tape and come up with numerous sources.

The differences between the tape and liquid are like night and day. The tape is 100% solids, it will give you a consistent bondline, is more flexible than a liquid product, it will maintain a positive seal under compressive pressure. The liquid will shrink anywhere between 20-40%, depending on amount of solids, it is not as flexible as tape, most of the sealant will be forced from the bondline during initial compression, flexural properties are poor compared to tape.
 
BobV1,
I never heard of the tape. We used some GE silicone to seal a window that was leaking.
I just hope it comes off easily in a couple of months. We have some minor delamination
(we saw it when we pulled the window out) problems, but the penetrating epoxy needs dry wood if I remember correctly.

Here is a quote from 8 July 2003, this forum: "The factory rep just told me they use Sikaflex 220FC on their jobs. "

I saved the original thread from when I bought our Tolly 44. It ran for over a year. It was our first "big boat" and I had so many questions... I told everyone the odd problems we ran into. From around April 2002 thru early summer 2003 if I remember correctly. I still refer to it.

No end to fun we have owning boats. :)
 
I looked at the 220FC on the Sika web site. It appears to be a fast cure windshield sealant with between 1-5% xylene as the solvent. It should work well and have little shrinkage.

For years all windshields were held in place by butyl tapes. However, with the design change and relatively new structural safety requirements, they're all bonded in place with fast setting urethanes. Sika is a major player in that market.

As far as using the silicone is concerned, it should release relatively easily. If it doesn't, there is a product called DeBond 2000 which brakes down silicones molecular structure and will help with removal. In fact, you should purchase some DeBond 2000 and acetone. Before you install the new window, you should clean the bondline area with the 2000 (fiberglass & aluminum frame) if a silicone was applied to the surface. A toohtbrush would work well for this step. Wipe the area with acetone after that. This will remove any silicone contamination from the fiberglass/aluminum and leave you with clean subtrates.
 
quote:
Originally posted by DLL

Glazing compound?

Click to expand...


DAMMIT. I am that old.

My first job was in a real hardware store. It included amongst other things, learning to and eventually being allowed to fix broken windows. Ironically, that same job was also where I learned to hate taxes!

Long before window grids (muntins) were between 2 or 3 sheets of hermetically sealed glass, completely void of air and filled with argon or other inert gas for insulation purposes, each one of those fake tiny window panes was actually a real tiny window pane. The frame of each of those panes is called a muntin. The muntins were normally made of a soft wood; pine if I recall correctly. The glass was cut by hand to fit inside the muntins. Approx a 1/8" gap between the muntin and the glass was considered a great fit! Tight specs, eh! The glass was held in place with glazier's points (a flat "nail") and the nasty weather was held at bay with glazing compound (putty). Good glazing compound will take slightly longer than forever to dry out. In 1972, I fixed windows from homes built just post WWII. The glazing compound was still pliable.

This explains it a bit better and has pix.
 
kiDA,
I was built just after the Korean war, and my stuff is still flexable too. I was built with German putty stuffed into some Irish lass-- I mean glass.
 
Chris-Craft used ordinary hardware store glazing compound to glaze cruiser windows during the 1950's. I've actually used it with great success on my old old boat. It works fine with sealed wood frames but caution must be taken before using it on a plastic boat. The oil in this compound can separate and cause issues. The exposed surface of traditional glazing compound must be sealed over with varnish or some other sealant spanning the frame to the glass otherwise it will dry out, harden and leak with time.

I won't use silicon sealant on my boat, period.

That said, I've replaced all of the windshield, window and sliding window glass on my boat. Most of that was glazed with Sikaflex 231 over a dozen years ago and all of it is perfectly sealed today. Sikaflex 231 is no longer available.

If I were to glaze windows today I would use what Sikaflex recommends today. That includes Sikaflex 295 UV for plastic windows and Sikaflex 552 for glass.
 
Sikaflex is good. another alternative is 3M 4200. I've used for long and worked very well.
 
quote:
Originally posted by yzer


I won't use silicon sealant on my boat, period.


Click to expand...

IMHO, Every boater should pay strict attention to this statement. Silicone has no place on a vessel for any reason whatsoever as there are plenty of boat-friendly products available of which silicone is not one.
 
I refurbished all the windows in my Tolly a few years ago. Tollys originally used closed cell vinyl foam tape with adhesive on one side. Since the tape will not be exposed to sunlight UV breakdown is not an issue--you can use standard Vinyl foam tape--available at any hardware. Thus far the seals have held up well with no signs of leaking. Note if you remove the windows, make sure you check that the window cutout has been sealed. I believe Tolly cutouts were sealed with polysulfide sealant.
 
quote:
Originally posted by DLL
Here is a quote from 8 July 2003, this forum: "The factory rep just told me they use Sikaflex 220FC on their jobs."

I saved the original thread from when I bought our Tolly 44. It ran for over a year. It was our first "big boat" and I had so many questions... I told everyone the odd problems we ran into. From around April 2002 thru early summer 2003 if I remember correctly. I still refer to it.

Click to expand...


I remember that thread very well as being one of the longest (or longest, per se) thread ever, as well as being one of the most informative threads to those who read it back then. I am pleased to see that you saved it as a point of reference.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Bill 2

quote:
Originally posted by DLL
Here is a quote from 8 July 2003, this forum: "The factory rep just told me they use Sikaflex 220FC on their jobs."

I saved the original thread from when I bought our Tolly 44. It ran for over a year. It was our first "big boat" and I had so many questions... I told everyone the odd problems we ran into. From around April 2002 thru early summer 2003 if I remember correctly. I still refer to it.

Click to expand...


I remember that thread very well as being one of the longest (or longest, per se) thread ever, as well as being one of the most informative threads to those who read it back then. I am pleased to see that you saved it as a point of reference.


Click to expand...


Someone have a link to this thread you refer to?

Shel
 
quote:
Originally posted by Shel

quote:
Originally posted by Bill 2

quote:
Originally posted by DLL
Here is a quote from 8 July 2003, this forum: "The factory rep just told me they use Sikaflex 220FC on their jobs."

I saved the original thread from when I bought our Tolly 44. It ran for over a year. It was our first "big boat" and I had so many questions... I told everyone the odd problems we ran into. From around April 2002 thru early summer 2003 if I remember correctly. I still refer to it.

Click to expand...


I remember that thread very well as being one of the longest (or longest, per se) thread ever, as well as being one of the most informative threads to those who read it back then. I am pleased to see that you saved it as a point of reference.


Click to expand...


Someone have a link to this thread you refer to?

Shel

Click to expand...


I do not think that there is an archived thread that goes back seven or eight years, and IIRC, the thread had been accidentally deleted or lost during some computer server change or upgrade (not 100% sure of that though).
 
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