size restriction for owner operator?

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pdecat

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Is there any restriction on how large a boat an owner operator can run?
 
Short answer is no, for purely recreational service. Pax for hire or other commercial service it gets less simple.
 
I was always under the impression that one needed a captain's license to operate a boat 50' or larger, even for pleasure. Am I wrong? Hy
 
Hey, HY, I think you're wrong on that. Licensing (and Mike/NC likely will have more information) is for commercial purposes. If you've got a 23' center console and you like to fish with your friends, go for it! But if you charter out you better have at least a 6-pack license (and less friends!).
 
What NC said - if vessel is used for recreational purposes, then no mariner license required (If I recall, over 300 GT, you'll need a radio operators license.) Once the operator is paid for services (on any size vessel), then the operator needs to have a license.

So buy that 85-footer, Bruce!
 
I stand corrected; thank you. Now I know what the 55' boat named "I'm rich, watch out!" could speed through the mooring field. He didn't have to know how to operate a boat, only how to turn the key to start the engines and throw the throttle all the way down! (Just kidding, I wish) Hy
 
Sadly, that scenario happens with licensed "captains" as well.
 
We live in MN. Last year, my son was 14 and got his boating certificate which allowed him to operate any (non commercial) boat in MN….except a jet ski.

Interesting part, he was allowed to operate a jet ski on the WI side of the St Croix and Mississippi but not the MN side.

Another interesting part…he got pulled over while on a jetski on the WI side of the St Croix, by a MN LEO because he looked too young to operate a watercraft
 
LBW - Once a boat is over 20 meters (about 65 ft), requirements come into play that don't apply to your 'typical' smaller recreational boat - those requirements apply to the boat and its operation, regardless of recreational or commercial use. Having the knowledge of a licensed mariner would certainly benefit the operator of boat in this size-class.

. . . And I know that boat - he's hit my mooring field as well!
 
There are no requirements or limits that I know of. 50' 65' all that is bs

The key though is that insurance companies will not insure you when you make a large jump in size, says 15' to 20' at a time without some training with a captain.

As to the USCG licensing process, it s a joke and the average boater will not learn anything and will not be safer. Last year I had to upgrade my license to 200 GT so I could run the boat I'm running now and even that was a waste of time. On the day before the test, we did a practice test... the actual exam was exactly the practice test. No wonder everyone passes
 
quote:
Originally posted by PascalG

There are no requirements or limits that I know of. 50' 65' all that is bs

The key though is that insurance companies will not insure you when you make a large jump in size, says 15' to 20' at a time without some training with a captain.

As to the USCG licensing process, it s a joke and the average boater will not learn anything and will not be safer. Last year I had to upgrade my license to 200 GT so I could run the boat I'm running now and even that was a waste of time. On the day before the test, we did a practice test... the actual exam was exactly the practice test. No wonder everyone passes

Click to expand...


I agree. The paper mills were a terrible idea and should be abolished. USCG should bring licensing back in-house. In addition to the testing being an absolute joke with the paper mills, some of them all but explicitly advertise they'll help gundeck your days at sea as well as the tests.

A first-issue OUPV means nearly zero in terms of competency, and a lower tonnage license barely more nowadays. When I sat for my first tonnage license almost 15 years ago at REC Boston, the paper mills were the exception - nowadays earning a ticket is the exception.
 
quote:
Originally posted by PascalG

There are no requirements or limits that I know of. 50' 65' all that is bs

The key though is that insurance companies will not insure you when you make a large jump in size, says 15' to 20' at a time without some training with a captain.

As to the USCG licensing process, it s a joke and the average boater will not learn anything and will not be safer. Last year I had to upgrade my license to 200 GT so I could run the boat I'm running now and even that was a waste of time. On the day before the test, we did a practice test... the actual exam was exactly the practice test. No wonder everyone passes

Click to expand...


+1

Add to that the lax sea time requirements to that gripe. Most new 6 pack guys barely have the required time.
 
The funny thing is that when we did the pro twice test for the 200 I must not have been paying attention to the instructor honting that the practice test was the same as the actual exam.... so comes the next day, I not even half way thru the actual exam and I see most of the other guys turning in theirs. Instructor was a bit ticked off that he had to stay longer as I didn't memorieze the answers and had to do all the plotting from scratch,

Shows you what a joke this is.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Robyns Nest

quote:
Originally posted by PascalG

There are no requirements or limits that I know of. 50' 65' all that is bs

The key though is that insurance companies will not insure you when you make a large jump in size, says 15' to 20' at a time without some training with a captain.

As to the USCG licensing process, it s a joke and the average boater will not learn anything and will not be safer. Last year I had to upgrade my license to 200 GT so I could run the boat I'm running now and even that was a waste of time. On the day before the test, we did a practice test... the actual exam was exactly the practice test. No wonder everyone passes

Click to expand...


+1

Add to that the lax sea time requirements to that gripe. Most new 6 pack guys barely have the required time.

Click to expand...


I would say that not just most - but the overwhelming MAJORITY of first issue OUPV paper mill customers DO NOT have the required time.

Just my personal opinion, though...
 
I'm a bit frustrated that two professional mariners (that I happen to have alot of respect for) lament the value of additional training or certification.

Over 50% of recreational boats are under 21ft. Most states do not require any formal training in boating, boat safety, navigation rules, emergency procedures - or even what needs to be on the boat. And many of those that do require training believe it acceptable to complete that training on-line (good luck discussing scenarios or getting questions answered there.) It's been my experience - and I'm sure j-d, phillyteach, and my fellow Aux instructors will concur - that most boaters are simply ignorant of the rules, practices, and responsibilities; and are not willingly violating those rules or endangering others (or themselves.)

As for the professional mariner, I'd agree they should be held to a higher standard, as they've been educated and tested on the basics of the requirements needed to perform services for hire. An OUPV should know that a crossing ship traveling in a narrow channel flying a cylinder on the OUPV's port side shall not be impeded, but the recreational boater probably doesn't even know the cylinder is a signal. Unfortunately, I don't think stick-time is gonna make most OUPV candidates better mariners - if your a poor boater, having a MMC doesn't suddenly improve that skillset.

While the upgrade test from 100 ton to 200 ton may not have benefited some (congrats, BTW Pascal), most folk out there are staring at "0", and even a basic boating safety course would hel-- well, it couldn't hurt. We all would have a better chance of safe boating if we knew those around us were all basically educated safe boaters.
 
There is value in training and certification if done properly.

On the recreational side, many states now require some kind of course under a certain age. I forgot the specifics for Florida but I think it's 25 or so. I can't begin to tell you many younger boaters I see doing stupid things... I ve looked at the online class, it's a joke. I doesn't address basic seamanship, it s pretty much all about regulations.

On the professional sides, NC is right. The USCG should do a better job with licensing and while I hate the idea of a government agency handling anything paperwork related, they should at least do a better job of monitoring how the paper mills operate. Especially nowadays with tech like webcams etc...

I also thInk that courses for the lower licenses, oupv, 100 and 200 GT should be geared towards the yachting industry, not th commercial world of tugs and ships. ThIngs like stability, cargo hauling, plimsol lines, etc... are totally irrelevant and a waste of time while no attention is paid to what a small to medium size yacht captain should know.

Take plotting for instance which is about 1/3 of the curriculum for all three courses.. fine... it s something that good to learn but what happen the tools used in the real world like electronic charts, radar, AIS, etc... yeah I know there is a specific radar course one can take but the basic should be included in the entry level classes

And as to experience and sea time, the 4 hours or 8 hours requirement to be counted as a day works fine on th commercial side of things but not in the yachting world. We rarely spend 4 hours underway per day and almost never 8 hours

And the list goes on
 
quote:
Originally posted by Good Grief

I'm a bit frustrated that two professional mariners (that I happen to have alot of respect for) lament the value of additional training or certification.

Over 50% of recreational boats are under 21ft. Most states do not require any formal training in boating, boat safety, navigation rules, emergency procedures - or even what needs to be on the boat. And many of those that do require training believe it acceptable to complete that training on-line (good luck discussing scenarios or getting questions answered there.) It's been my experience - and I'm sure j-d, phillyteach, and my fellow Aux instructors will concur - that most boaters are simply ignorant of the rules, practices, and responsibilities; and are not willingly violating those rules or endangering others (or themselves.)

As for the professional mariner, I'd agree they should be held to a higher standard, as they've been educated and tested on the basics of the requirements needed to perform services for hire. An OUPV should know that a crossing ship traveling in a narrow channel flying a cylinder on the OUPV's port side shall not be impeded, but the recreational boater probably doesn't even know the cylinder is a signal. Unfortunately, I don't think stick-time is gonna make most OUPV candidates better mariners - if your a poor boater, having a MMC doesn't suddenly improve that skillset.

While the upgrade test from 100 ton to 200 ton may not have benefited some (congrats, BTW Pascal), most folk out there are staring at "0", and even a basic boating safety course would hel-- well, it couldn't hurt. We all would have a better chance of safe boating if we knew those around us were all basically educated safe boaters.

Click to expand...


Additional training is great - I don't question the value of good training. But the so-called training and certification that I rant about is neither - it's only the smallest step away from outright fraud, in my opinion.
 
When I had taken a course for the 'six-pack' license years ago, I would have had to go down to Virginia (from Long Island, NY) to take the 6-hour exam, costing a few hundred dollars at that time. Since I had only taken the course to be a better boater and the cost of the exam and the trip to Virginia was more than I could afford, I never took the exam. Unfortunately, I've also forgotten much of what I had learned in the course because the classroom and textbook information are not part of my recreational boating life. As an educator, I know that one forgets much of what is not used on a regular basis. I applaud the courses, even today, but have no respect for any instructor or program which gives students the exam questions as a 'practice exam'. That is cheating, plain and simple. It's also guaranteeing a license to some who are not qualified to have it. That is scary. Hy
 
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