starter bolt

H

h2o-oo

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Joined
Jun 24, 2006
RO Number
21952
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10
Problem with 2000 four winns 3.0.(volvo-penta) 3rd summer now that I have sheared a starter bolt, replaced it with a #10 harden bolt now, cannot drill it out because the drill will not go thru the bolt, any suggestions and or way this may still be happening, the starter has been replaced.
Dealership is no help either is the manufacture.
 
Can't tell from the way you wrote this if there's a broken bold in the engine now or not. If there is, and it's extra hard, not sure I'd be able to suggest a way to extract it anyway.

As for WHY this happens, I can only guess that 3.0s usually need an extra bracket from the motor end of the starter [as opposed to the drive end] to the block. If yours doesn't have one, investigate to see if it should. Counterintuitive that the V8s don't use a bracket and the 4s do, but I think it has more to do with engine vibration than cranking effort.

Another possibility, you're getting a little water in a cylinder. Cylinder comes up on compression while cranking. Hits noncompressible water and balks. Load goes to starter bolts and they work loose. This could lead to bolt breakage or flywheel damage.
 
when the starter is removed, do you have easy access to the broken stud??
 
Looks like you are going to have to go shopping for a harder drill bit. Cobalt bits should not be to difficult to find.
Actually about two years ago my son broke off an easyout in a bolt in his bobcat, I went and bought other drill bits and we were able to get the easyout out, but can't remember if we drilled through the easyout or not. Old Mike

Drill-bit Type Comments
High Speed Steel (HSS) Twist Bits: Designed for metal and most plastics, these bits work reasonably well in wood, and if you are on a budget, these are the ones to buy. Most metals and plastics form swarf well, (swarf is the curl of metal or plastic that spirals off during machining) and this travel up the flutes (the helical grooves up the side) of the drill-bit fairly freely. Wood, on the other hand forms sawdust, and this tends to "choke" the drill. Hence, it is necessary to use a pumping action with these drill-bits in wood. This is particularly important with the smaller sizes as not only are they easier to snap, but more inclined to choke. If you are drilling metal, the swarf may be very sharp, and the hole edges may be too, so watch your fingers. Drilled holes in metal should have the sharp edges deburred using a larger hand-held drill-bit or a special deburring tool.
Coated HSS Drills For those of you intending to do a lot of metal drilling, drill-bits coated with Titanium Aluminium Nitride (TiAlN) can be a worthwhile investment. This is a golden colour (but beware, some of the super-cheap ones are simply flash-plated gold, or even painted gold!)

The coating is applied by vapour deposition and is hard, tough and has a low coefficient of friction. Normally high speed steel drill-bits do not drill aluminium gracefully (it tends to weld itself to the drill-bit, resulting in poor swarf clearance and a badly toleranced hole, either oversize, out-of-round or both). With TiAlN the low coefficient of friction eliminates this, and most metals can be drilled without coolant/lubricant. On top of this, faster cutting speeds can be employed and the tool life is about 10 times that of HSS. Obviously the price is higher, but industry seems to find it cost-effective, including less interruption for changing the bit.

Cobalt Drill-bits Another variation on the metal drilling theme. Cobalt drill-bits are the next step up the hardness scale from HSS drill-bits. They are designed to drill very hard materials, and will cope better with metals like stainless steel (although will still be blunted by some types). One useful DIY application is drilling out the remains of other broken drill-bits, although other harder bits may be better still.
C1150 The next harder step up is called a C1150. This has short flutes and a longer shank than normal. After this in hardness comes a D200 twist drill-bit.
D200 This looks quite a lot like a HSS twist drill-bit, so you have to look at the packet it comes in. It is quite a good drill-bit to have for stainless steel.
Solid Carbide Drill-bit Now this is a beast. It will drill and cut into a screw and stud extractor (also known as an "easy out") — an extractor tool for a broken stud/bolt, and these are made from quite hard steel in their own right.

There is also a fair chance that it could cut into any of the above drill-bits, if you could keep it on centre
 
quote:
Originally posted by j-d

Can't tell from the way you wrote this if there's a broken bold in the engine now or not. If there is, and it's extra hard, not sure I'd be able to suggest a way to extract it anyway.

As for WHY this happens, I can only guess that 3.0s usually need an extra bracket from the motor end of the starter [as opposed to the drive end] to the block. If yours doesn't have one, investigate to see if it should. Counterintuitive that the V8s don't use a bracket and the 4s do, but I think it has more to do with engine vibration than cranking effort.

Another possibility, you're getting a little water in a cylinder. Cylinder comes up on compression while cranking. Hits noncompressible water and balks. Load goes to starter bolts and they work loose. This could lead to bolt breakage or flywheel damage.

Click to expand...
 
There is a bolt broken. Also removed starter, I notice that there is a hole on the bottom side of flywheel mount, that looks like there should be a bolt and hole throught the starter besides the two that goes into the motor and rear braket(on backside of starter). Starte was replaced when this orginally happened but now I am wondering is the did not install the correct starter,I will find this out on monday via fourwinns.As for the water in the cylinder the dealer look at this as well and said that it did not appear that it was taking on water but, was not sure. Is there a way to find this out on my own? As for the removal of the broken bolt I am taking to a shop to have someone (brother) weld a nut to the top and try to screw it out. By the way the rear bracket on the starter did break, which never happend before, I am wondering if it happend because specs call for a # 8 hardend bolt and I replaced them with a #10, hence something has to give or break at the weakest point first. I will be checking the flywheel as well to make sure everything looks fine.
 
quote:
Originally posted by mf15

Looks like you are going to have to go shopping for a harder drill bit. Cobalt bits should not be to difficult to find.
Actually about two years ago my son broke off an easyout in a bolt in his bobcat, I went and bought other drill bits and we were able to get the easyout out, but can't remember if we drilled through the easyout or not. Old Mike

Drill-bit Type Comments
High Speed Steel (HSS) Twist Bits: Designed for metal and most plastics, these bits work reasonably well in wood, and if you are on a budget, these are the ones to buy. Most metals and plastics form swarf well, (swarf is the curl of metal or plastic that spirals off during machining) and this travel up the flutes (the helical grooves up the side) of the drill-bit fairly freely. Wood, on the other hand forms sawdust, and this tends to "choke" the drill. Hence, it is necessary to use a pumping action with these drill-bits in wood. This is particularly important with the smaller sizes as not only are they easier to snap, but more inclined to choke. If you are drilling metal, the swarf may be very sharp, and the hole edges may be too, so watch your fingers. Drilled holes in metal should have the sharp edges deburred using a larger hand-held drill-bit or a special deburring tool.
Coated HSS Drills For those of you intending to do a lot of metal drilling, drill-bits coated with Titanium Aluminium Nitride (TiAlN) can be a worthwhile investment. This is a golden colour (but beware, some of the super-cheap ones are simply flash-plated gold, or even painted gold!)

The coating is applied by vapour deposition and is hard, tough and has a low coefficient of friction. Normally high speed steel drill-bits do not drill aluminium gracefully (it tends to weld itself to the drill-bit, resulting in poor swarf clearance and a badly toleranced hole, either oversize, out-of-round or both). With TiAlN the low coefficient of friction eliminates this, and most metals can be drilled without coolant/lubricant. On top of this, faster cutting speeds can be employed and the tool life is about 10 times that of HSS. Obviously the price is higher, but industry seems to find it cost-effective, including less interruption for changing the bit.

Cobalt Drill-bits Another variation on the metal drilling theme. Cobalt drill-bits are the next step up the hardness scale from HSS drill-bits. They are designed to drill very hard materials, and will cope better with metals like stainless steel (although will still be blunted by some types). One useful DIY application is drilling out the remains of other broken drill-bits, although other harder bits may be better still.
C1150 The next harder step up is called a C1150. This has short flutes and a longer shank than normal. After this in hardness comes a D200 twist drill-bit.
D200 This looks quite a lot like a HSS twist drill-bit, so you have to look at the packet it comes in. It is quite a good drill-bit to have for stainless steel.
Solid Carbide Drill-bit Now this is a beast. It will drill and cut into a screw and stud extractor (also known as an "easy out") — an extractor tool for a broken stud/bolt, and these are made from quite hard steel in their own right.

There is also a fair chance that it could cut into any of the above drill-bits, if you could keep it on centre

Click to expand...
 
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