Strange Interior Wrinkle

A

airbus

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exMember
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Hi,

Well I went down to the boat today to check on it, and was met by something new in the cabin.

2 long wrinkles on the corner of my cabinets.

I can't see where anything has leaked in, and I am baffled as to why or how this happened. A week ago it was not there.

My wife is heartbroken as this boat is 12 years old, and the interior is still perfect. (Until Now)

I've attached a picture of the area, but this was taken prior to the problem. When I go back down, I'll attach a current picture.

The wrinkle is about 1/2" wide, and is located in the center of the circle I've added to the picture. The entire length of the corner. If you notice the two areas are not even connected, but both are now deformed. It's as though you pinched or pulled out the corner all the way down, if you can picture that.

Next question is, what is the surface called and can it be recovered?

Thanks for any info.

area.jpg
 
probably a vaneer, birds eye maple?? it can be repaired or replaced by a competant wood worker.
 
Without additional info, all I can say is something -very- generic: it sounds like a veneer delamination, or put another way, the thin layer on top has popped loose due to a glue failure.

If the materials were known, then a suggested approach might be possible. The generalized response it that you make a razor cut in the veneer which will allow it to lay back down, and then re-glue the veneer. The devil is in the details however, and you should not consider this a repair method till the materials are known, and a specific plan can be formed. In any event, this can usually be repaired and while it won't be invisible, it won't be obvious, either.

--

In wood veneer over wood substrate, this is usually caused by a combination of spot heating ( sunbeam ), moisture ( incl humidity. Liquid water not necessary ) and/or mfg defect. The uneven heating can cause local glue failure. Humidity can promote the swelling/shrinking of two different wood species/types at different rates, causing the veneer to pop up ( and the glue to fail... )

Usually this is a result of "fine furniture" being exposed to an extreme environment ( extreme for furniture. All things are relative ). Freezing and/or humidity varying from very dry to very humid are examples.
 
I have the same boat and I have the exact same problem with mine. Mine is delaminated.

I don't even know if the wood grain is real wood veneer or just a picture of wood as is used in Pergo flooring. In my case, the only way to do it right involves pulling the whole thing from bulkhead to the corner near the exhaust fan. I can't fathom what that would cost. I am just going to live with it for now. I may have just the rounded corner wrapped in stainless. Be on the lookout for delamination above the vinyl runner above the exhause fan and continuing forward beneath the dish storage cubby. Mine is coming off there as well. I am going to have to pull that one as it appears there is mold getting under the lamination.

Let me know how you make out.
 
David,

Thanks for the quick reply. It seems very strange that both locations wrinkled at the same. That is what has confused us.

Does appear to be an expensive repair.

Maybe a countertop specialist.

Like you, I also thought of maybe a piece of trim wrapped in matching leather or something.

Sounds like a project for next winter.

Thanks for all the replies, but keep them coming.

quote:
Originally posted by KiDa

I have the same boat and I have the exact same problem with mine. Mine is delaminated.

I don't even know if the wood grain is real wood veneer or just a picture of wood as is used in Pergo flooring. In my case, the only way to do it right involves pulling the whole thing from bulkhead to the corner near the exhaust fan. I can't fathom what that would cost. I am just going to live with it for now. I may have just the rounded corner wrapped in stainless. Be on the lookout for delamination above the vinyl runner above the exhause fan and continuing forward beneath the dish storage cubby. Mine is coming off there as well. I am going to have to pull that one as it appears there is mold getting under the lamination.

Let me know how you make out.

Click to expand...
 
Probably not strange at all that they both both occured around the same time. Same material, same adhesive and probaly applied at the same time and both pieces exposed to the exact same environmental conditions and stresses for the same amount of time.
 
One way to make such a set is to make one curved section then slice it in two, making top and bottom. ie: The top and bottom were the same piece and a problem while laminating the veneer would show up in both pieces.
 
Sounds like a reverse printed clear vinyl laminated to wood substrate. This is how wood grains on station wagons were done years ago & inexspensive furniture still being done this way
 
quote:
Originally posted by airbus

David,

Thanks for the quick reply. It seems very strange that both locations wrinkled at the same. That is what has confused us.

Does appear to be an expensive repair.

Maybe a countertop specialist.

Like you, I also thought of maybe a piece of trim wrapped in matching leather or something.

Sounds like a project for next winter.

Thanks for all the replies, but keep them coming.

quote:
Originally posted by KiDa

I have the same boat and I have the exact same problem with mine. Mine is delaminated.

I don't even know if the wood grain is real wood veneer or just a picture of wood as is used in Pergo flooring. In my case, the only way to do it right involves pulling the whole thing from bulkhead to the corner near the exhaust fan. I can't fathom what that would cost. I am just going to live with it for now. I may have just the rounded corner wrapped in stainless. Be on the lookout for delamination above the vinyl runner above the exhause fan and continuing forward beneath the dish storage cubby. Mine is coming off there as well. I am going to have to pull that one as it appears there is mold getting under the lamination.

Let me know how you make out.

Click to expand...


Click to expand...


You are correct. It is expensive.

http://restorationmarine.com/

I can see a need for a market (in a better market) to do this in real wood. If not full thickness, then a real veneer with real finish v. a plastic laminate that does not appear to flex with the boat.
 
There is a pretty good chance ( imho, over 50% ) that it is one of the "printed on vinyl" veneers.

Pros: Always available, in a "perfect match", less expensive than real wood veneer, easier handling, you can bend it without problems, and it is "pre-finished".

Cons: Looks like "printed on vinyl", soft, has a different coefficient of expansion than the substrate which increases risk of bubbles, requires a specific glue that will adhere to the vinyl.

In contrast to a real wood veneer:

Pros: Looks like wood because it is wood. Hardwood veneers have similar expansion charistice to wood or plywood ( or equivalent ) substrate, so with normal care, little risk of bubbles/buckling. But it can look really good.

Cons: Not always available, not always a "perfect match", expensive, special care and handling, bending requires consideration of the grain direction and does not allow tight bends, and it must be finished.

When I use wood veneers on boat items, I use vacuum bagged lamination with epoxy, finish with a clear epoxy, then shellac, if desired. The epoxy makes it, for all practical purposes, plastic, and very water resistant. That leaves only UV fading... ( Use a UV blocking clear top finish which helps a lot, though it won't stop the fading )

--

If it were my boat, and considering my skills, I would do a slit repair. If it failed, I'd strip the exixting veneer and replace with highly figured real wood veneer ( see above ).

YMMV. Caveat emptor. Do this at your own risk. Only with adult supervision. Do whatever your Admiral sez. She is right, no matter how wrong she might be... ;)
 
The surface appears to be LPL (low pressure laminate) and not true veneer. Basically, it's the same type of material that is used to fabricate counter tops, but is thinner and more flexible, so that it can be bent around various curves.

Chances are that it was applied with contact adhesive to a plywood backer. A fix should not be too costly or difficult. The delamination problem is probably the result of cold winter temperatures causing the plywood to shrink and the bond to let go. The coefficients of expansion and contraction of the plywood and LPL are different.

If you heat up the delaminated area the adhesive will re-activate and can be rolled with a "J" roller. This should be sufficient to reattach the LPL.

More information would help us to better understand the exact nature of the problem.

At this point, your best bet might be to contact a counter top shop and have them take a look.
 
Thanks BOBV1.

quote:
Originally posted by BobV1

The surface appears to be LPL (low pressure laminate) and not true veneer. Basically, it's the same type of material that is used to fabricate counter tops, but is thinner and more flexible, so that it can be bent around various curves.

Chances are that it was applied with contact adhesive to a plywood backer. A fix should not be too costly or difficult. The delamination problem is probably the result of cold winter temperatures causing the plywood to shrink and the bond to let go. The coefficients of expansion and contraction of the plywood and LPL are different.

If you heat up the delaminated area the adhesive will re-activate and can be rolled with a "J" roller. This should be sufficient to reattach the LPL.

More information would help us to better understand the exact nature of the problem.

At this point, your best bet might be to contact a counter top shop and have them take a look.

Click to expand...
 
Before doing anything, I would call the boat manufacturer and ask them what the product is and if they've seen this happen. If so, they might have a suggestion as to what to do and who to call for repairs.

If it is a "wood" product you should call in a professional "refinisher." You may be able to repair the spots, but it may never match the rest of the woodwork in the boat. I've had these guys come in to change wood stains and match finishes in many executive office renovation projects and it's a miracle what these guys can do.
 
Airbus, why it took 12 years to happen who knows, but given the wild tempurature swings we have had in the Charlotte area last week, I guess I am not totally suprised it would happen now. I am sure there is someone in the area who could repair it. I would also call SeaRay, they have had some problems with veneers in some of their models, I recall the the 2001 290, 310 and 340 all had some delamination problems with the veneer.
 
I used to have to do minor countertop repairs and fix delaminations in a previous life. A clothes iron with a towel to protect the finish of the laminate would reactivate the glue and the pressure of the iron would press it back to the substrate. Glue will age and lose it's grip and on a curved surface like that, the outward stresses could be great. Try to iron out the wrinkles before you get too carried away with other repairs.
 
Definitely worth trying heat/rolling or ironing over layers of cloth, but as it has happened on different boats it's likely to reoccur.

You might consider using a router or laminate trimmer thin straight bit to cut a vertical groove at the corner and cover the corner with something like a curved corner T-molding trim piece . That might allow for the inevitable expansion and contraction cycles of the thin laminate and it's base material. Maybe you could find something a little fancier (gold or white? wood/metal/plastic?))than this : http://www.nextag.com/CRL-3-4-Push-531400652/prices-html?nxtg=643b0a1c052c-ED7AEBC79348506F That's just to give you a general idea of a possible shape.

Or ....forget the groove and attach a "C" shaped corner trim over the wrinkle with say 3 screws ,top bottom,middle, on the vertical centerline so the material under the outer edges of the "C" would still be able to move & wrinkle under the "C" unseen. OK, it's just a thought.
 
airbus - I don't see it posted anywhere and if it is I apologize, but is the boat in or out of the water? Has it been out recently? May be a dumb question but is it possible the damage is from the boat flexing while on jackstands?
Jim
 
quote:
Originally posted by 32carv

airbus - I don't see it posted anywhere and if it is I apologize, but is the boat in or out of the water? Has it been out recently? May be a dumb question but is it possible the damage is from the boat flexing while on jackstands?
Jim

Click to expand...


Nope ... Has not been out of the water in about 2 years.

I leave the A/C running year round, so the environment has been constant inside.

I'm still baffled as to why this has happened to two areas in a matter of days.

Lots of good advice here. I will try the iron with a towel and see how that does.

Thanks for the thought.
 
You might want to face the other direction when that micro is waving. ;D
 
i find it hard to believe that a builder like SR woudln't be using real veneer and resort to cheap furniture technique. If the iron trick doesn't work, a good carpenter should be able to replace the veneer but it's going to be labor intensive,especially the high gloss finish. check if there is a way to remove the cabinet altogether and get it down in his shop. You may need to spray the finish to get high gloss, that and the dust from scraping the old veneer will be a messy job in a boat.
 
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