Sundancer 400DA - diesel vs gas?
- Thread starter BVasily
- Start date
Dry weight on on 36c Silverton (hull length is a tad over 37', LOA is 40.5') is 18k pounds. At cruise of 21 knots, gas burns 34GPH, Diesel burns 18GPH. So there is a fuel burn comparison. Handling around the dock, the diesel has more torque, therefore easier. Maintenance, if you do your own oil changes, and fuel filters, the cost is not much more, but will be more (more filters and more oil needed). 20K is a very little amount of difference in money if both boats equally shake out to be in the same condition. As mentioned, this is a northern boat, if your plan on 60 hours or less, maybe 80 hours or less a season I would not discount the gas boat.
My Silverton 34/36C had 502 crusader motors that were fuel injected, great motors and definitely was not underpowered. Being it is a Searay, I will assume mercrusier motors, if so, the diesel setup is much better and will last you longer.
Most important here is the overall quality and the comparison of amenities and care of both vessels. In other words, although I feel the diesel motors would be a good choice, if the gas boat has more to offer you and is in better shape and you don't put that many hours on in a season, that may be the way to go.
My Silverton 34/36C had 502 crusader motors that were fuel injected, great motors and definitely was not underpowered. Being it is a Searay, I will assume mercrusier motors, if so, the diesel setup is much better and will last you longer.
Most important here is the overall quality and the comparison of amenities and care of both vessels. In other words, although I feel the diesel motors would be a good choice, if the gas boat has more to offer you and is in better shape and you don't put that many hours on in a season, that may be the way to go.
Not all diesels are created equally.
http://www.boatered.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=163571
http://www.boatered.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=163571
If you are still on the fence about this, try this simple demonstration. Take one (1) cup of ambient temperature diesel fuel and place it in an open top container. Drop a lighted kitchen match into the container of diesel and observe what happens. Now go way out in the country, in a wide open field and try the same with gasoline. After that demonstration which fuel do you want to haul around under the deck of your recreational vessel?
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Agree. Ips oil has to be done on land. Plus I need adapter to winterize engines.
boatcomfort
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The salesman is probably make better commission on the gas boat. Any boat 9Tons plus go diesel.Maintenance a bit more than gas.
Diesel, diesel, diesel...have I mentioned you should go diesel?!
You know, some things just can't be quantified. I want to tell you ahead of time, I'm an engineer by trade, and a somewhat anal person (be nice, everyone!) by nature, so it's completely normal for me to over analyze everything, and then wish I would have done something else after the decision is made!! That being said, three years ago I bought my first diesel boat and I can't imagine going back to gas for anything other than a runabout. In addition to the logical justifications mentioned so far, there's just the pure pleasure of operating the diesel boat that supports the logical reasoning. I can't explain the confidence it gives you when you bump it in gear and it just bites immediately, or the responsiveness in close quarters, or the ability to climb the back of that following wave without feeling like you're going to get sucked in...and on, and on, and on. Yes, my scheduled maintenance is a little more expensive (6 gallons of oil each, not 6 quarts, filters, etc), the thought of a major problem resulting in a rebuild scares the crap out of me, and I fall into the category that probably makes more sense to own a gas boat because I only put about 50 hours per season on the boat. I don't care! When it's a little windy, I know I have enough control to get me in my slip, even if I'm not Pascal or Capt Bill. If it's a little rough and I still have to get home, I know I have enough grunt to push through it. I still know my limits, but it's given me more confidence to enjoy my boating, and I went from a twin I/O with bow thruster, to shaft drive without a thruster.
BTW, I also consulted the BE community when I was shopping and there are few places you can get so much diverse opinions, experience and knowledge.
You know, some things just can't be quantified. I want to tell you ahead of time, I'm an engineer by trade, and a somewhat anal person (be nice, everyone!) by nature, so it's completely normal for me to over analyze everything, and then wish I would have done something else after the decision is made!! That being said, three years ago I bought my first diesel boat and I can't imagine going back to gas for anything other than a runabout. In addition to the logical justifications mentioned so far, there's just the pure pleasure of operating the diesel boat that supports the logical reasoning. I can't explain the confidence it gives you when you bump it in gear and it just bites immediately, or the responsiveness in close quarters, or the ability to climb the back of that following wave without feeling like you're going to get sucked in...and on, and on, and on. Yes, my scheduled maintenance is a little more expensive (6 gallons of oil each, not 6 quarts, filters, etc), the thought of a major problem resulting in a rebuild scares the crap out of me, and I fall into the category that probably makes more sense to own a gas boat because I only put about 50 hours per season on the boat. I don't care! When it's a little windy, I know I have enough control to get me in my slip, even if I'm not Pascal or Capt Bill. If it's a little rough and I still have to get home, I know I have enough grunt to push through it. I still know my limits, but it's given me more confidence to enjoy my boating, and I went from a twin I/O with bow thruster, to shaft drive without a thruster.
BTW, I also consulted the BE community when I was shopping and there are few places you can get so much diverse opinions, experience and knowledge.
Rob, what kind of sensor problems with the Merc 8.1L engines? I have 2006-7 Merc 8.1L HO's and other than drinking Ethanol they have been trouble free. I probably just jinxed myself now. They don't belong in a boat that is as heavy as mine. I wrestle with my illogical decision when I repowered. I know a few other Mainship 40SB (1993-1999) cruisers that converted to Yanmar 240hp 4 cyl diesels that get excellent fuel burn and performance. Re-sale, gas powered 40SB's can be had for $45k to 55k their diesel powered sisterships sell for $90-110k. The diesels seem to sell unlike some of the 40SB gas boats that were on the market when I bought mine. These gas powered 40SB's are still on the market over 6 years later!
Bill
OMG 7.4's
Billy IAC sensors , Manifold over heat sensor , I had a bucket full of spare sensors. I stopped installing them and just zip tied them . Buddys IAC actually caused a small smoke condition. Then we can start on the paint on the inside of the fuel pumps that the ethanol breaks down. They know its an issue but yet continue to manufacture with paint.
Billy IAC sensors , Manifold over heat sensor , I had a bucket full of spare sensors. I stopped installing them and just zip tied them . Buddys IAC actually caused a small smoke condition. Then we can start on the paint on the inside of the fuel pumps that the ethanol breaks down. They know its an issue but yet continue to manufacture with paint.
The Cats are good engines regardless of what you will hear. They had a bunch of engines with bad valves that failed around 150-200 hours. If this boat has normal hours, it should be well beyond the failure stage.
We are running a single CAT 3116 in our Mainship, 2000 hours with no issues.
Regardless of what power you chose, check the boat to see if it has a cored bottom. Sea Ray did have some issues with cored bottoms on the 40-46' DA's getting water saturated.
We are running a single CAT 3116 in our Mainship, 2000 hours with no issues.
Regardless of what power you chose, check the boat to see if it has a cored bottom. Sea Ray did have some issues with cored bottoms on the 40-46' DA's getting water saturated.
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The Cummins B series it is almost cheaper to order a reman than rebuild.
It is about 18K for a 370 horse B with a 2 year Cummins warranty and the
Re and re is done same day. then sell the old block to a rebuilder.
It is about 18K for a 370 horse B with a 2 year Cummins warranty and the
Re and re is done same day. then sell the old block to a rebuilder.
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common rail diesels also have numerous sensors, computers, and electrical connections.
In a damp, or moisture laden usually saltwater environment, not seeing daily use, these are all opportunities for potential failures.
A mechanical diesel engine with an injection pump will run with clean fuel and air and compression.
All things being equal, once she cranks, she's good till shut down.
Unfortunately, US EPA Tier one/2/etc requirements have sent most of these designs to Dinosaur world, however abundant choices do remain.
Since my repower in 2005, my diesel engines and genny have never failed to perform.
For me, safety and reliability are key.
Still lovin those Yannies !
RWS
mrknowitall
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Lowball the gasser... they will struggle to find a buyer beyond the inland lakes. Very limited market, the pool of buyers is too small.