Survey

O

otfII

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Joined
Aug 5, 2008
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30541
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I just read another post with the cookie cutter "get a survey" answer. I know I'll probably get blasted on this, but there has to be an amount. The question is at what boat price/cost is a survey not worth it assuming you have a good general knowledge of the brand, model, and boats.

For example a $500 survey on a 5000 boat is a 10% cost, 5% on a 10,000 boat probably more assuming the survey is more depending on size, and so on.

I am a very detailed person and have bought three boats sold two, as projects over the past years. I have never had one surveyed and never regreted it.

Just wondering if there is anyone on this forum that disagrees with the "get a survey 100%" answer.

I agree that if you are clueless or somewhere in between it is money well spent, but on a project boat?
 
I am very mechanical and do pretty much everything myself. I have also been boating (on all kinds, large and small, sail and power) my entire life.
However, I would still get a survey. A "general" survey (not including engine oil anylisis) on an "average boat" 28 to 35 feet should be somewhere around $500 +/- type of baot and geo. area.

I have seen "what I would think is just about everything" in all my years of boating, BUT THINK ABOUT WHAT A SEASONED SURVEYOUR HAS SEEN. He walks into the boat KNOWING what to look for and has the benefit of (seen that before).

IMO a survey of even $1,500 on a $10,000 boat can save you more than the $,1500 if done properly.
For me its not necessarily about the money (of the survey) but the down time AND THE ASSOCIATED AGGRIVATION of getting things back together and getting back to boating. I do not want to be fooling around right after I just went through the time and expense of finding the right boat for me - I want to be having fun.
 
A long time boater should be able to do a basic survey with a checklist. Should the boat not be in the condition you want then pass on it. Cost is basically nothing at this point; just some time. The next step is deciding if a real survey is needed. In my opinion: the larger the boat, the older the boat, and the more equipment it has will certainly figure into the equation. A small, newer, 20' bowrider will not have much to check other than the hull, engine, and drive. Unless something was fishey, I would not get the survey. On the other hand if I were looking at a 30' ten year old cruiser, then I wouldn't think twice. On a project boat, I would be inclined to have a survey done. Having it done by a professional, he may find things that you think is a project boat but is more like a disaster.
 
A lot of people see a boat and fall in love with it, all they see is themselves having frozen drinks and basking in the sun.

A surveyor's job is to give you an objective report on the boat, something that can be quite difficult to do yourself.

If the boat is a couple of hundred, then go ahead and buy it, if it's thousands of dollars, then you need someone to tell you if you are buying someone else's problem, or whether you are getting a fair deal.

I bought my 17" CC without a survey, I have no regrets.
 
Even on a project boat, I'd get a survey for two key reasons.
Rather than looking at it in terms of a percentage of the selling price, I look at it as a "cost avoidance" expense. Take for instance a structural problem like wet stringers or a saturated transom. I may be able to detect a bit of an issue with my trusty hammer, but I don't own a moisture meter, nor have the experience to extrapolate what it's telling me if I did. So... Pick a number for T&M to repair/replace a transom, deck stringer and compare it to the cost of a survey. I'd venture the survey would be the cheaper of the two....

If one decides to go ahead with the transaction, then the survey data provides a bargaining chip. Keeping the transom fix as an illustration, lets say it would cost 2500.00 to fix. Seller didn't divulge the info, so I'm looking at the original price being based on a good transom. It's not, so I'd expect an adjustment to the price... Without the survey, I may save the 500-100 bucks, but you'll have lost 2500 or more when you eventually find all the issues and pay for them in addition to the top dollar paid for the boat originally.

I had a survey done on mine (brand new boat) and found a few items that were needing attention. I was able to negotiate additional discounts as this dealer would rather reduce the price than have to sub out some of the work. Saved myself a bunch-o-cash AND I knew my new boat was in "new" condition.

John
 
I like a survey, not because I am clueless, but because of two important reasons:

As HOGAN states, the surveyor is not emotionally involved, and while I am quite good, I am imperfect. A "second set of eyes" is always welcome. He may spot things I find, I may spot things he finds, but it is quite likely that when you combine the two lists together, it will be longer than either original.

If the boat is really inexpensive, and it won't bother you to later find the real reason the boat was for sale, then skip the survey. Note this decision may ( or many not ) be more expensive than the survey. But I would consider skipping the survey to be the exception rather than the rule. Best practice is to get the one, imho.
 
Four years ago I thought I had found the perfect boat. Just like love, it clouds your eyes. So, 1/2 hour into the survey, the surveyor says "Take a look at this". The fiberglass roving didn't quite match. I had completely missed that detail. Stringers had been replaced up to the cabin bulkhead, but they were shot forward of the bulkhead. The surveyor said "I can continue, or you can pay me for time and travel, and we can walk away." $200 well spent.
 
"GET A SURVEY!!!!!!!!!"

(sorry, couldn't help myself)
 
I'll add this for the "get a survey" crowd. For every good surveyor there are 10 crappy ones. Finding a good surveyor is like finding a good dentist or an honest lawyer.

On my first boat I hired a surveyor whose reputation was "best in the business". This guy did such a sloppy job and was totally disinterested in doing his job. At the time I was a novice in boating yet I found more discrepancies than this guy. But before I selected the make and model of the boat I was purchasing I took the time to do research on it with previous owners.
 
If you are buying a "cheap" boat 5k or 10k. roll the dice my friend, I would. If you do not have any knowledge about motors or boats, then you are a fool not to have a survey. If you are spending big bucks for a boat you are a nut not to have a survey.

"I'll add this for the "get a survey" crowd. For every good surveyor there are 10 crappy ones. Finding a good surveyor is like finding a good dentist or an honest lawyer."

Well said and I agree, but we have a good and honest surveyor on this site, his name is Al Prisco. As far as an honest lawyer, we also have a very honest guy on this site, his name is "Hogan" aka Mike.
 
We all love attorneys.

I once went to court with an attorney and the only thing he had was 'his hands in his pockets'. I had to give him my pen and paper.
There is no honest attorney; at least I never seen one. They learn in 'Lawyer 101' how to bill the client. A good attorney by noon on Monday will have already have billed their clients for at least 20-30 hours of work. They make a two minute phone call and bill that client for 15 minutes. All you got to do is talk to an attorney who has a grudge and the truth will come out about billing practices. I haven't come across an attorney who would give you ice water in the winter without charging for it.

Hogan may be different; maybe he is doesn't fit the mold.
 
The initial cost of the boat isn't the main reason to get a survey. It's the cost of repairs and hidden damage that a survey can make you aware of that is the real issue.

Your $500 cost on a $10,000 boat is one thing. But if the survey uncovers hidden damage that will cost you another $10,000 to repair it's money well spent.

quote:
Originally posted by otfII

Click to expand...
 
I've owned two boats, paid about the same on both. Didn't know a lot when I got the first boat, missed some obvious things that a survey would have found which would have reduced my offer. On the second boat he pointed out some items that I woudl not have noticed. SOme of them were handeld by the seller some I handled but all make for a longer lasting boat. From this point on, I'll get a survey.

Now with most surveyors, you may be abel to negotiate the extent of the survey. For example, if you have a project boat and will repower, don't waste time on the mechanicals but do a good hull and structure survey to make sure the boat is worth it.
 
quote:
Originally posted by walterv

As far as an honest lawyer, we also have a very honest guy on this site, his name is "Hogan" aka Mike.

Click to expand...

quote:
Originally posted by mandm1200

We all love attorneys.
I once went to court with an attorney and the only thing he had was 'his hands in his pockets'. I had to give him my pen and paper.
Click to expand...


36_18_21.gif

Not Hogan

It’s not Mike’s hands in your pockets you need to worry about-

it’s your cooler that you have to watch!
36_8_101.gif
 
I think given the question, why even ask? Go and do what you think is right. Only you know your own qualifications.
 
I've always heard that 99% of lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. :-) I'm sure Hogan is in the 1% minority.
 
I shouldn't have said there are no honest attorneys. I did have one who had the charges dropped while in front of a magistrate. The owner of the firm wanted to enter a plea of not guilty and take the case to county court which would have been expensive. So if I offened anyone, my aplogies to them.
 
It all really depnds on how comfortable you are with doing your own survey, and how complicated the boat is. If you've owned numerous boats over the years and done alot of the work on them yourself and feel you really know the boat and systems, and it's a not too complicated 30'er, then that's one scenario. If you've new to boating, or never owned anything too complicated, or the boat you're buying is a 60'er, then get a surveyor.

I generally ask my customers if they already have a survey checklist (and not just one printed off the internet). If they don't, that's a pretty good indication to me they wouldn't know enough about what they are doing to do it correctly themselves. I also tell customers 50K is my mental cutoff. But that's if they really know boats. After 50K, even if they think they know how to check it themselves, they should still get a surveyor. Unless they are 1 in 1000 and have exceptional knowlege. There are just too many factors to really sit one price point.

JB
 
Get a survey for all of the reasons above. I had one done and never regretted it, although there were some conditions that I wished the surveyor had caught: like the dangerous carburetor that needed a rebuild.

Besides, a lot of boat insurers are going to require a recent survey before you can get a policy.
 
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