Tongue weight and wheel bearings

G

Greg Schoenberg

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Back in March, I sought and bought a 5000 lb. 22' Campion with Alaskan Bulkhead. Boat was near San Diego. I live near Portland. Rather than have it shipped, I drove down and towed it home in my Explorer with tow package and V-8. The journey home was uneventful, although with the short wheelbase, it was definitely a load at times. A few days later, I started hearing some intermittent grinding in the rear, which progressively worsened. Turned out that one wheel bearing was gone, another on it's way our. $450 repair which could have been worse had it been the differential or transmission.

The repair guy made an interesting comment. He said I had too much tongue weight on the rear end. When I hooked her up, the trailer was level with the ground. In hindsight, should it been elevated?

-Greg
 
How much was the tongue weight? What is the max tongue weight recommended for the Explorer? Being level has no bearing on whether or not there is the appropriate tongue weight. How much did the Explorer settle when the trailer was attached? Did you notice any sloppiness in steering?

Even a heavy tongue weight is less than what you could normally carry in the back of your vehicle. I would doubt that this was the reason for the bearing failure.

I would recommend that in the future you determine all of the parameters before towing.

G
 
It's just a coincident, do check you trailer tongue weight but I doubt that was a reason for the bearing failure. I've seen new trucks without towing/carrying load with bad bearings too.
 
Baloney, I expect that ford uses the same bearing on every vehicle at least until you get to the high load stuff with those truch style axles.
 
FYI,a way to quickly tell if it is a bearing or not is to make sharp turns while listening. Turning towards the noise will reduce the sound if it is a bearing.
 
Let's get back to the main question....how much tongue weight did you put on the Explorer?
 
I have no idea how much tongue weight was on it. The boat itself is 4300# dry. It had a 40 gals. of gas in it and a sleeping bag. In the Explorer, there was me, 200 lbs., and a backpack. I did climb to significant "hills", the Grapevine and Siskyous....4000 feet each. Rest was relatively flat. That's all I know for now.

-Greg
 
I usualy run the tongue weight at around 100 lb. I use a bathroom scale to check.

Bearing buddies. They allow for the expansion and then contraction of the grease with out pulling in water to the bearings.

Unfortunatly car bearings dont do that. So if you submerged the car axle you might have pulled some water through them axle seals and bearings.

Just a thought cause it took me a couple sets to clue in.
 
quote:
Originally posted by oldfishboat

I usualy run the tongue weight at around 100 lb. I use a bathroom scale to check.
Click to expand...


That much tongue weight is fine for a 1000# boat. For a 4000# boat it would be dangerous.
 
quote:
Originally posted by bruceb

quote:
Originally posted by oldfishboat

I usualy run the tongue weight at around 100 lb. I use a bathroom scale to check.
Click to expand...


That much tongue weight is fine for a 1000# boat. For a 4000# boat it would be dangerous.

Click to expand...


That's a fact.

Tongue weight should be 10-12% of the live weight GVWR...which means, the combined weight of the boat, trailer, gear in boat, gas in boat...in short...everything you would be normally trailering.

Take the rig over to truck scale and have it weighted...it's free.

If you need to shift the weight, that's done by repositioning the axle fore or aft.
 
Bruce

I dont agree. Ya you can go ahead and place 250 or 500 lb on that tongue but its realy not going to make that much difference. Other than placing more load on to the tow vehicle. You want that why?

Whats dangerous about running the tonge with 100 lb?

IMO - The trailer should take the load. The trailer should be able to handle that load. If you want to share the load with the tow vehicle then go to a fifth wheel. Or equalizing hitch. Big pick up etc.

Most of these ( 4000 lb or 5000 lb) hitchs will be rated for 250 to 500 lb tongue weight. No different than having one or two of me in the back seat. <Grin>. That alone will change the handling on the tow vehicle with out a trailer.

So sure run 250 lb add another 100lb. what ever makes no never mind to me. But at least know prior to getting out on the open road what you are adding in weight and how. Make sure you are aware and look at the ratings for the trailer, the hitch, the tow vehicle.

I use a bathroom scale. I keep the weight of the tongue around 100 lb. I like to run with the trailer load balanced over the trailer wheels. I dont like the spring effect on the trailer tonge. I dont like running an overloaded vehicle specialy with a trailer behind.

This is just my oppinion.
 
Fishboat Guy,

The danger is a trailer that is prone to fishtailing because there is not enough live load on the ball to stabilize it.

Secondly, a bathroom scale is not a valid weight reading for mechanicals...it is not designed for commercial or retail trade weights.
 
Generally 5 to 7% is of the load is the accepted amount for boat trailers. But--I have found that handling is much better with 10%--which is that accepted for house trailers since the boats I tow are pilot house boats with a high profile. A lot depends on what type of boat you tow. With the higher tongue weight--there is much less sway and the boat is much more stable.

One cannot give a specific tongue weight without describing the weight of the boat and trailer, as well as the type of boat. If oldfishboat had a skiff which had a total weight of 1000 lbs on the trailer, then 100 lbs might be appropiate, but for a 6000 lb load, I agree it would be dangerous.

I tow 7500 to 10,000 lb boats with a Ford Excursion diesel (tow and rear overload kit)--and I am sure that the bearings of the Excursion are much beefier than those of the Explorer. The tow capacity of the V6 Explorer is in the mid 5000 lb range and the V8 in the 7000 lb range. Many boats weight more than the advertised weight. Some is due to the layup, some due to gear and fuilds and some due to water absorbed into the hull if the boat has been in a wet slip. So it is possiable that you were near the capacity of your SUV (even though it seems as if you had plenty of margin).

I would weight the boat on the trailer and also determine the tongue weight--I would think that your SUV will handle it fine.
 
quote:
Originally posted by oldfishboat

Bruce

Whats dangerous about running the tonge with 100 lb?

This is just my oppinion.

Click to expand...


It's not an absolute weight issue as much as a center of gravity issue. That is why tongue weight is expressed as a percent of thetotal load.

I take it you have never had or seen a swaying trailer get away from you. That is what wil lhappen with the low tongue weight.
 
If you take the CG aux boating safety class one of the questions on the exam is the proper tongue weight of a trailer and the correct answer is 5-7% IIRC. Personally I liked a bit more at around 10%

When we towed a 7200# load the tongue weight was 720# and the Trailblazer EXT handled it just fine. No noticeable fishtailing even at 65-70mph.
 
Looked at the America's Boating Course book and the suggestion was 7-10%.

I think the wheel bearing question was about the rear axle of the tow vehicle, not the boat trailer. If the Explorer uses an axle similar to the ones common in many light trucks up to 1/2 ton, there is a roller bearing pressed into the axle housing with an oil seal outboard of the bearing. This means the bearing is lubricated by the lube oil in the differential housing. This means bearing could have been badly overloaded, just plain wore out, ***OR*** failed for lack of lubrication because the oil in the differential housing was not up to level.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Msibley

Fishboat Guy,

The danger is a trailer that is prone to fishtailing because there is not enough live load on the ball to stabilize it.

Click to expand...


In the beginning of my 1200 mile trek home, the hitch was high, putting alot of the load on the trailer axels. I did experience quite a bit of fishtailing, which is dang scary on a small towing vehicle. When I got to the top of the grapevine, a trucker advised me to get a lower stem and so I did at an RV store. Noticed a big difference in the fishtailing dept.

-Greg
 
quote:
Originally posted by j-d

Looked at the America's Boating Course book and the suggestion was 7-10%.

I think the wheel bearing question was about the rear axle of the tow vehicle, not the boat trailer. If the Explorer uses an axle similar to the ones common in many light trucks up to 1/2 ton, there is a roller bearing pressed into the axle housing with an oil seal outboard of the bearing. This means the bearing is lubricated by the lube oil in the differential housing. This means bearing could have been badly overloaded, just plain wore out, ***OR*** failed for lack of lubrication because the oil in the differential housing was not up to level.

Click to expand...


Mine is an 02' with independent rear suspension. I'm quoting my mechanic on this, who stated that the differential was fine and not affected by the bearing failure.

In addition, I've hauled our 6 member family with an 18 ft. ski boat for vacations each summer. Perhaps the bearings having 75k of miles on them just wore out. Regardless, this vehicle will not hauling the Campion again beyond a 100 miles on level ground.

-Greg
 
Greg, I agree with your mechanic. If you have IRS then the differential lube is contained in the "pumpkin" and never gets to the bearings. You probably cannot even pack those wheel bearings, only pull and replace with aid of special tools.

Either a fluke, tons of miles wearing it out, or you were really high on tongue weight. You say 5000# boat. Was that with or plus trailer? Rigs are usually over the weight we think they are. Now say you hitched with a jack of some sort and really have no idea what percent the tongue was. Could easily have exceeded the axle rating. The max tow rating of the Explorer is probably with a weight-distributing hitch [like travel trailers use] that spreads the load among front and rear axles. Boat traler hitch not only doesn't distribute, it gives the tongue weight leverage against the rear axle because the distance it's behind the axle.
 
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