Trojan 440 Upgrades, Fixes and Ideas

I think you need to take a road trip and come and help me:)
 
Dave. I will make you a deal. Bring your boat down here and I will take a day off and do it for you. And I will show you how to build your own for the next year. Seriously though it is really easy to do. Just time consuming. A couple hours per heat exchanger and after cooler.

Edit: I forgot to mention you can also run it output to input on your ac units to clean them out too.
 
John this is great!!! When you did the after cooler did you push from the top to bottom? I think I can simply do this with my portable pump. How many gallons was the tank?
 
Guys,
Make sure after you have replaced your coolant with distilled water that you test for PH and phosphates with Cummins fleetguard 3 way test strip (CC2602). Then add Cummins DCA4 supplement coolant additive. This prevents cavitation forming within the coolant that can cause pitting to the internal engine parts. I use this in my Volvo TAMD 74P's.
 
Allen, you really need a pump that can handle the phosphoric acid that is in the barnacle buster. And a pump the can run continuos for a couple hours. I can not say about your cummins but my heat exchanger is horizontal. I did plumb it to flush backwards. Same for the after cooler. I think I put in 2 gallons of barnacle buster concentrate a gallon of distilled water. Then flushed with 4 gallons of just distilled water. I switched out the solution per motor. At $60 a gallon BB is expensive.

I looked at harbor freight and did not see it any more. Northern tool has one though

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200578542_200578542

It may seem expensive to do but I think it is worth it. I would say it only needs to be done every two or three years. YMMV
 
Just ordered a Y adapter 2 30's to 1 50, 2 50 foot 30 amps cords but my boat really needs two 50 amps, I think I am the only one. Being we are going away next week and the marina we are going to already told me I am only getting one power line. Among all the other things I ordered in the last two weeks I just have to slow down a bit. I also have a mechanic coming to the boat on Wednesday to help me figure out why I don't get 2600 rpm per manufacturer data plate. I am sure I am going to drop a grand right there. For some reason I am only getting 2350 rpm in full power in neutral and 2250-2300 when running the boat. Both rpm gauges are reading the same. My thoughts are that me engine synchronizer is the problem but I am not sure. Hopefully it is not going to be too bad.
So for right now I am adding your link to my favorits under after cooler and heat exchanger cleaning. :-)

Just found that in the Trojan manual book it say that my engine WOT should be 2800 rpm, top spread 31.5 mph or 27 knots. I don't think this is correct, just more confusing.
 
At most marinas it seems I have to use my y adapter to go from to 30a to my 50a but I am confused when you say you need to 50s. Do you have two 50 amp circuits?

I don't know the exact engine you have but I certainly would not go by the Trojan manual. There is so much wrong in my manual that it is not even worth reading as printed. If the data plate says 2600, I would be inclined to believe that. You should get the service manual for your specific motors. WOT and cruise speed would not be the same and the service manual will tell you exactly what it should be.

I know how you feel. Sometimes it seems like all I am ever doing is fixing something, modifying something, or replacing something. But I look at it this way. If I do it now and I do it right I should not have to do it again for a long time.
 
Allen, you are killing your engines at those RPMs. You should get 2750 at WOT. If you post your issues on Boatdiesel.com, you'll get answers for free. Tony Athens there is an expert on Cummins, I guarantee you he will walk you through the process of getting you the correct RPM.

The speed number is probably with an empty boat, no fuel or water... I can get close to that number, but I never run at WOT.
 
Yes John, I have two 50 amps circuits. Not sure why they did it this way. I don't have any electrical need that is different then what you guys have, maybe the washer dryer but Dave has that as well. I will take pictures and post. Last year I had an adapter and connected 2 30 amps of which showed signed of over heating in the connection to the adapter.
Mike I truly believe it is some technical issue related to reading the correct rpm and I think the engines do get 2600 rpm. Other wise I don't think I would be able to run at 24.5-25 knots. Take of my swim platform and I will probably run at 30 knots :-). The frame for hydraulics seat too low and it looks like I am towing an anchor in the back, my swim platform and dink get washed in long runs.
I hope tomorrow or Thursday the mechanic will be able to figure the rpm issue out and if not I will post on boat diesle. Thank you.
 
That is strange Allen. What kind of Benny do you have? I am curious as to how that is wired to provide two 50A circuits as well. I only have two circuits but they are both with one cord, a 50amp 125/250v. Essentially two 25A circuits I guess when it is plugged in at a 50A connection. When I use the splitter to combine to 30A connection I guess I get 30A per side. At any rate one circuit is the AC and the other is everyting else. With both AC running it will jump just above 15 when one cycles on but otherwise holds steady around 10-12. On the other side with the water heater, stove, refer and microwave plus lights I will barely get to 15. With reasonable power management I think I could get away with just one 30A leg for the whole system.

I was just thinking, two and half years ago when I bought this boat I was trying to figure out how one cord had two circuits. LOL
 
Does the Trojan manual make reference to your motors or does it simply same the motors should do 2800 RPM and reach 31.5 MPH? These numbers are dead on for my motors so it might be that they didn't update the manual to reflect your motors, I now John has stated many times the there are many mistakes in his manuals and everything seems to refer to my model. This said I too am concerned about the lack of RPMs of your motors I really hope this mechanic can resolve this for you and it's not a small fortune to correct. Hogan is dead on as to the damage this can be causing if not correct. What have you been cruising at RPMs and what is your current max?

I'm not sure if I have mentioned this but I finally had time to bring my boat back to my canvas guy and I think he has completely stopped my leaks. We sprayed the top with a hose and I didn't got so much as a drop come in. It didn't take much to correct he added extension to the track that holds the top to the arch this extension acts as a gutter and pushes the water around to the side of the arch and it runs outside. He also added a second piece of this same track in the corner of the arch were the water pools this piece dams the water and forces it to run of the rear of the arch in the water runs off the down the rear canvas. The entire repair take maybe two hours and this included adding an extra snap that I felt it needed and freeing up the first two inches of one of my zippers making it much easier to start and open. At this point I'm very happy with the new top! Not so happy with the marina where I had the work done but that's another story, I not sure why anybody would want to stay there!
 
Forget what Trojan says about the RPM. It's what the manufacturer, Cummins says. They say you should hit 2750 at WOT.

I can't say it enough, Allen should be on Boatdiesel. He'll learn more about his engines in one day of reading there than he will here in a year.
 
quote:
Originally posted by jmeirhofer

That is strange Allen. What kind of Benny do you have? I am curious as to how that is wired to provide two 50A circuits as well. I only have two circuits but they are both with one cord, a 50amp 125/250v. Essentially two 25A circuits I guess when it is plugged in at a 50A connection. When I use the splitter to combine to 30A connection I guess I get 30A per side. At any rate one circuit is the AC and the other is everyting else. With both AC running it will jump just above 15 when one cycles on but otherwise holds steady around 10-12. On the other side with the water heater, stove, refer and microwave plus lights I will barely get to 15. With reasonable power management I think I could get away with just one 30A leg for the whole system.

I was just thinking, two and half years ago when I bought this boat I was trying to figure out how one cord had two circuits. LOL

Click to expand...

I have the Kohler 9EOZ. I get the same numbers as you get on the board, never more than 15-18 so that is why I think I might be just fine with 2 30's. the previous owner had the boat powered like that.
go figure. it always makes me think about all the little differences between the boats and why they made changes from one to another!

Dave the numbers I posted were on the Trojan manual book specifically with the 450C engines but I agree with Mike, its like believing a car dealer when they tell you how great the fuel consumption is on a hummer :-)

Mike I listen to you the first time :-) I am on boat diesel and I did learn a lot. with out Tony's posts about the after coolers and heat exchangers I would never dare touching them, I still think that I need help with figuring if it is the gouges or the engine sync. if he cant resolve this issue then I will have to read/post on boat diesel or maybe even easier get my dad over.
 
quote:
Originally posted by HOGAN

Allen, you are killing your engines at those RPMs. You should get 2750 at WOT. If you post your issues on Boatdiesel.com, you'll get answers for free. Tony Athens there is an expert on Cummins, I guarantee you he will walk you through the process of getting you the correct RPM.

The speed number is probably with an empty boat, no fuel or water... I can get close to that number, but I never run at WOT.

Click to expand...

Tony Athens is the man when it comes to all things with marine diesels!
He is a great guy and has a wealth of accurate information. If I ever re-power or get a boat with diesels I will once again consult with Tony.
Bill
 
quote:
Originally posted by Billylll

quote:
Originally posted by HOGAN

Allen, you are killing your engines at those RPMs. You should get 2750 at WOT. If you post your issues on Boatdiesel.com, you'll get answers for free. Tony Athens there is an expert on Cummins, I guarantee you he will walk you through the process of getting you the correct RPM.

The speed number is probably with an empty boat, no fuel or water... I can get close to that number, but I never run at WOT.

Click to expand...

Tony Athens is the man when it comes to all things with marine diesels!
He is a great guy and has a wealth of accurate information. If I ever re-power or get a boat with diesels I will once again consult with Tony.
Bill

Click to expand...

Thanks Bill. i am going to try to post today on boat diesel.
 
So first update. Had a mechanic on board today. Wasn't on the boat my self unfortunatly. Engines are fine, don't have rpm numbers at this point. As suspected He think it is my gauges. I happened to have two spare but the mechanic is saying there is one little differance in conectivity between old and new so he will research and get back to me.
 
I am guessing he did not have a hand held or digital tach to verify rpms?
 
quote:
Originally posted by jmeirhofer

I am guessing he did not have a hand held or digital tach to verify rpms?

Click to expand...


If he didn't, I wouldn't trust him.
 
The reason I said that Allen is that if he had a tach, hand held or otherwise, he would be able to give you a definitive answer on the tachs or if it was a mechanical problem.

I used that same method to determine I had an issue with my tachs not giving accurate info. What I have not determined yet is if it is the tachs or the wiring to them. At any rate using the hand held I knew right away. If he is just going on his feeling that your hitting WOT and your going to replace the gauges to see, you have a 50/50 shot of it being the solution or having spent money for nothing.

Btw, those hand held tachs are cheap over on amazon.
 
Sorry I didn't made it clear. Yes he did had the tach, not sure if it was hand held or electronic. The reason I am not sure what it was reading I was communicating with the office and they with the mechanic. Tomorrow he will let me know what the reading was. I am considering having them install a fuel flow system while they are at it. I agree I already made the mistake trusting a mechanic that believed the engine sounded like at the right RPM. Another HUGE mistake I made was not insisting to have the engines service record. I have no idea what they did or didn't do.
 
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