Upgrading holding tank system ???

F

footloose

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Joined
Dec 10, 2001
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6963
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619
If you had to do it over would you:

- go with fresh water flush instead of raw water flush?

- would you remove the ability to dump overboard (closed system)?

- would you add a macerator and an offshore pump out capabilty?

I will be redoing mine soon and would be interested to hear the pros and cons. Thanks
 
Foot, you didn't fill out your profile, so I don't know where you operate the boat, what kind of boat it is, or what kind of sanitation system you have on it. So I'll just offer these general comments.

The advantage of having a raw water flushing toilet is that the water is always there, and it doesn't cost anything. It won't empty your tanks or take away your ability to shower when desired. The downside is that it often doesn't smell very good, it tends to stain the toilet bowl, and you can get mineral buildup inside the toilet, hoses and fittings from dissolved mineral deposits in the water that tend to settle out during periods on non-use and adhere to the inside of any and all things that are exposed to that water. These deposits are concrete-like and are difficult to remove. They'll build up inside hoses and eventually close them up so that nothing will flow through. They also accumulate inside the toilet, hampering its ability to work properly.

Fresh water flushing toilets operate off of the pressure water system on the boat. If the boat operates in a lake or river, and the toilet flushes with outside water, it is still a raw water flushing toilet. Fresh water toilets use pressurized fresh water only - there's a fair amount of confusion about this. People call me all the time, wanting to discuss their fresh water toilet, when the toilet is actually a raw water toilet - it can get confusing at times! Note that manual toilets are always raw water flushing, and cannot be safely converted to flush with pressurized fresh water. Fresh water toilets operate off of the pressure system on the boat (same water you use for drinking, showering and dishwashing) don't cause any smell, run quieter because the toilet doesn't have a raw water pump, and use less electricity to operate.

The ability to dump a holding tank overboard is OK, provided you are 3 miles or more out in the ocean. If you will never be that far out with the boat, you can't legally dump the tank overboard. So it basically depends on how and where you use the boat. If you hug the coastline, or are in a lake or river, there's no reason to have overboard tank pumping ability, because you can't legally do it anyway. But if you spend time out in the ocean, more than 3 miles offshore, then it'd be a good idea to have that capability. A macerator pump is required if you want to empty the tank when at sea - it won't drain by gravity, it must be pumped out.
 
And now for a rank amateur opinion and I don't even know if this is possible.

VacuFlush head and LectraSan attached to a Hold and Treat system (only because we do a lot of raftups). Eliminates trips to the pumpout stations completely. A buddy just sold his 32 Bayliner and picked up a Sea Ray 400 Express. His biggest disappointment is the Sea Ray does not have the LectraSan like his Bayliner did.
 
unless you spend a lot of time offshore, i dont' see the need of direct overboard discharge... it's an extra hole, an extra Y valve to keep locked and to maintain.

If you often go offshore (beyond the 3 mile limit) then having a macerator to pump the holding tank overboard is worth having. I think that's your case, you often run in the ocean, don't you ? if you install one, i'd recommend you get the sealand pump... it's more expensive but can run dry and will last much longer than the impeller macerators. I woudl also use above WL discharge... one less hole, one less seacock to worry about but make sure you have a valve on the line that can be locked or a key switch for the pump in case you get boarded/inspected

if your water tank is big enough, go for fresh water flush... in addition to what Vic said, again that's one less hole/seacock to worry about !

as to the type of fresh water head, I like vacuflush but i know some prefer regular electric heads... i hear the new ones dont' really use more water than VF. What i like about the VF though is how little there is to maintain and how easy they are to unclog if someone does something stupid... as long as the pump is in an accessible location, it takes a couple of minutes to open and clear the duckbill. and if you develop a problem you can still often keep using the head manually, shutting down the pump with the switch.
 
David MMSI# 338036974 (kind of a strange last name, isn't it?), it's perfectly possible. In fact, even SeaLand accepts it as being a viable way to go.

With a Hold 'N Treat, everything first goes into the holding tank. Then later on, when the tank is full, a transfer pump (macerator pump) begins to send measured amounts from the holding tank to the treatment system where it is treated and discharged.

In No Discharge areas, it's simply a holding tank that must be emptied at dockside in the conventional manner - the Hold 'N Treat sysztem is locked out via a key switch. But when the boat has left the no discharge zone, the captain can turn on the Hold 'N treat system and treat and discharge the contents of the holding tank while motoring away. It has the capability to treat approximately 4 gallons per hour, so if you have a large holding tank, it's gonna take a while to empty the tank and treat everything that had been in it.

Pascal, as usual, is right on the money with his comments.
 
thanks all - sorry for the lack of detail. 42 foot ciigareete looking thing but it is a cruiser - very small holding tank today and it has a Y-valve to flush directly overboard which I have locked out and never use. Salt water (raw water) flush does stink from time to time but somtimes we use the head's shower head to flush and use fresh water to rinse the tank. There is no macerator to pump anything anywhere in the existing system so I use it as a holding tank only and pump it out....but I need a bigger holding tank and where it is located will not accomodate a larger tank - probably move it into the engine bay.

Maybe I should get a bigger tank, mount it in the engine bay, continue to use salt water to flush/use fresh when I want to (shower head), but add a macerator to pump it overboard when I am out to sea. Best of all worlds probably.
 
yeah, upgrade your holding tank and put in a macerator while you're at it for when you go offshore... then later on if you need to you can always upgrade the head.
 
Not sure, but I don't think you want to locate the holding tank in the engine room... ( heat )
 
If that's the case and there is only a couple of you on board, (correct me if I'm wrong Vic) I would opt for strictly the LectraSan or the Eclectroscan. The one I spoke of on my friends former Bayliner was trouble free for 3 years of ownership. He and his wife took 2 week summer trips on the boat each of the three years he had it. He averaged about 175 - 200 running hours per year. At least every other weekend on board in the summer and once a month in the winter.
 
not around here... the Keys are a NDZ... it's a great system, esp. the hold n treat, but i wouldnt be without a holding tank !

Bill, I had a holding tank in the engine bay on my first boat, no problem... well, maybe the stuff brews a little more :-)
 
What about installing a grey water tank and using that to flush the commodes?
 
Paul, interesting, but at a minimum, that carries the problem of how to flush if the grey water tank is empty... I would also suspect that the expected soap and other materials will not act well in the finely tuned head system. IMHO. I could certainly be wrong, but that is how it seems to me.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Vic Willman

David MMSI# 338036974 (kind of a strange last name, isn't it?)....

Click to expand...


Actually it's my middle name. They wanted Sh!thead (pro: sha thee' add) but it was taken.
 
David, I've always heard it pronounced "Sha-Theed," but it's the same name :-)
 
Radio,
I was curious with the same concerns about the soap. But I dont see where that could be any worse than the chemicals in raw water.
 
Shadow: soap = degreaser. I would think that any ( exposed ) grease in the head pump would get removed. Plus "soap scum". Maybe. Don't know for sure.
 
Radio, didnt think about that aspect. Good point. I was thinking along the build-up line.
 
Vic,

What if Footloose creates his own Hold 'N Treat using his existing holding tank? It sounds like he's got everything he needs to put the system in.

Footloose, Vic can explain in better detail, but you can add an Electro Scan unit after your holding tank. It's the best of both worlds. You've already got the overboard discharge. All you need would the the Electro Scan, Hold 'N Treat Control, and a Macerator pump (pumps from the holding tank to the Electro Scan). I've got this system on my boat and it makes our 20 gallon holding tank MUCH BIGGER!
 
Kurt, he can certainly do that. The Hold 'N Treat is available as a component system, using your existing holding tank. Included in the kit is the computerized controller, the tank level indicator (for a plastic tank), and a relay to power a transfer pump.

You supply the holding tank, the treatment system, and the transfer pump. Raritan also offers the treatment system and a transfer (macerator pump). If you already have a Lectra/San, it must be the MC version, "E" chip series. You have to look at the main chip on the printed circuit board of the Lectra/San - it must say "LSE" on the chip. Earlier models of the Lectra/San MC will have to be updated in order to be used with a Hold 'N Treat. Models of the Lectra/San prior to the MC version, can't be used with a Hold 'N Treat system. All electro-scan units are compatible with the Hold 'N Treat system. Purasan units can also be connected to a Hold 'N Treat system, but I don't know how to do it just yet.

Summary of how it works: Toilet flushes directly into the holding tank. When in a No Discharge Zone, the holding tank must be emptied at dockside in the conventional manner. After leaving the NDZ, the captain has a key switch and can turn on the system. It then starts transferring measured amounts of effluent from the holding tank to the treatment system for treatment and overboard discharge. When the tank level comes down to a pre-set level, it turns off and remains on standby. The system has the capability of treating up to 4 gallons per hour.
 
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