Volvo 5.7 MPI Gi-E starting issue - solved

bobh

bobh

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I have a 2005 Stingray 250 CR with a Volvo 5.7 that has always started with a simple turn of the key, even after being stored all winter. In the past three weeks I've had to put the shifter in neutral and give it some gas to start. Runs fine after that but wondering what I should be looking at to get back to the easy starts I enjoyed for 12 years. I did change the fuel filter at the beginning of the season. I have not changed the spark plugs or wires in a couple of years. Any thoughts?
 
I haven't worked on one of these. But, since it's MPI, I'd think that turning the Key from OFF to RUN, should cause the High Pressure (Injection) Fuel Pump to run a few seconds to prime gasoline right up to your Injectors so you can enjoy that quick start. Which, by the way, I miss! We just replaced a TBI MerC engine with a Carbureted one...

OK, back to you. I'm pretty sure the Priming feature I described, is based on Time, not Pressure. In other words it runs for say 02 seconds under the assumption that gasoline is there to pump, and the injectors will get primed in that time.

What I don't know, is how the gasoline is made available to that high pressure pump. Our old TBI MerC had an engine mounted mechanical pump that filled a Vapor Separator Tank where the High Pressure Electric Injection Pump was located. IF IF IF you have another pump, feeding that Injection Pump, and it isn't doing its job, you'd have to wait for it to "catch up" before the Injector Pump could do its job. MerC Master Tech replaced our expensive Injection Pump when in fact the engine mounted mechanical pump had gone weak. Pump (whole VST assembly, actually) I should put up For Sale.

See if you can pull up a Parts Breakdown or a Service Manual.

EDIT: I also "assume" it has a Pressure Regulator to feed Injectors at a steady pressure that is less than what it receives from the Injection Pump. If that Regulator is leaking, then the Fuel Rail may not pressure up all the injectors for an easy start, within the couple seconds the ECM runs the Pump before Engine Starts.
 
I believe the only reason "giving it some gas to start" would make any difference on an MPI engine is if some cylinders were not initially combusting so it may give a little more staying power to the firing cylinders until the others fire & catch up .

Suggest you do an overdue full proper tune-up, particularly new dist. cap & rotor, and check cam retard angle vs. Volvo spec for that model and yr. with a marine scan device. Don't worry about timing, as that would be fully controlled electronically, including initial timing.

J-D may be right about loss of prime due to funky regulator or there may be drain back to the tank or a leaky injector could be causing a flooded condition. If the last is the case, setting throttle lever to full WOT will turn off the injectors while cranking so only air will be drawn in to dry out wet plugs or over-rich fuel mixture and should allow the engine to start faster. And if that helps, I suggest you have the injectors checked because one or more would be wasting fuel.
 
Had similar issue in one of my Volvo 5.7 gi motors. Plugs, rotor, cap, fuel filter, fuel filter, and some sea foam in gas tank took care of it. If not, the fuel pressure regulator, tps, or iac could be issue.
Jim
 
May be simple shifter needing to be wiggled in neutral to get neutral safety switch contacts to seat.
 
Charlie- - It sounds like it cranks OK, just reluctant to combust.
 
Thanks for all of the replies. I do hear the high pressure fuel pump running when I turn the key to on. This weekend I made sure I paused with the key to ON, before turning the engine over. It did turn over without giving it gas at the marina a few time, but on the water after anchoring I had to give it gas again. This week I am going to change the plugs, wires, rotor, and cap. I'll keep you posted.
 
I installed new plugs and wires and learned how to contort my body in the process. I also bought a new cap and rotor but did not bring a torx screwdriver to the marina so I couldn't install these items yet. The issue continues with having to give it some throttle or gas to start. Hoping the cap and rotor make a difference but I'm thinking it is something else.

I did change the fuel filter at the start of the season. Think it worth changing again? I had easy starts (with a turn of the key)at the begging of the season, maybe I got some bad gas between the start of the season and when the problem began? I am going to try to do the cap and rotor this week.

Jim you mentioned the IAC (Idle Air Control) valve as a potential cause. Can they just be replaced? Do they need to be programmed or anything?

Bob
 
Easy to replace IAC. Idle is up and down and erratic until ECM "learns" the new part. There are several posts on this website if you search.
Jim
 
Just a quick update - installed the new rotor and cap. Seems to have solved my problem. At first it ran rough until I discovered I had mixed up two of the wires and had my firing order off by one! As soon as I figured that out it ran smooth and seems like I am getting my easy starts back. Going back to boat today - keeping fingers crossed !
 
Just another update - I am getting easy starts at the marina, but still experience intermittent times when I have to put the shifter in neutral and give it throttle to start. It seems to happen after being at anchor a little while. Any thoughts on what to check next? I'm thinking it can't hurt to change the fuel filter.

Although the engine generally runs smooth, I do seem to notice some popping at around 3,000 RPMS. Not sure of that is related.

Thanks again for all your suggestions and help.
 
Popping out of the carb is an indication of a lean condition...not getting enuff fuel. Fix it or you can potentially burn a hole in a piston or melt the edge of a exhaust valve. It may be a partially clogged injector.

Marine plug wires are twisted SS wires inside a silicone jacket. Unless there has been some external damage, you should never have to have them replaced. Mine are 19 years old.

If you have distributor and rotor ignition, all they need is inspection to see that the edges have sharp corners which means no excessive sparking which will melt those corners. Usually all the maintenance that need to be done is scrapping the crusty build-up around the rotor and distributor contacts.

If by chance anyone has points/condensor type ignition, the points will eventually melt around the sharp corners and pit the contact surfaces. You can file them to keep them flat and sharp, but replace them. Points that are too close together will advance the timing and make the idle seem fast and shallow. Make sure you have the ignition OFF when working around any ignition component.

A condensor going bad will start to poop out and stall the engine before finally stopping the engine completely. the time frame between pooping out and engine not running at all can vary greatly, from single engine miss to bad running all season.
 
Update - took the boat out yesterday. the engine started with a turn of the key at the dock. Went directly to fuel dock, had to give it throttle to get it to start after fueling up. Ran fine (maybe a miss here or there) for the 20 minute ride to where we anchored (a mix of no wake zones and regular zones). Anchored out for about 2-3 hours and when we were ready to go I had to give it throttle to get it started. Tried to get up on plane but it was running very rough and sputtered. Turned it off and tried to re-start the engine. This time could not get engine to turn over even by giving it throttle. Had to get a tow back to the marina.

I've changed the plugs, rotor, cap, and wires. I'm think it is a fuel issue or the coil as Charlie suggested. Any suggestions on what to check first? I did buy a new fuel filter and will install that tomorrow. What else should I do to rule out fuel? Looking at my manual it suggests the following:
*operation and condition of flow capacity and anti-siphon valve (not sure where valve is)
*fuel pump vent hose - for signs of fuel or oil that would indicate a fuel pump failure
*fuel pump relay/breaker operation
*carburetor accelerator pump

Any other thoughts or ideas or advice on how to check the above? Thanks again as always!
 
Been too long. It's Fuel Injected, right? If so how many Fuel Pumps and what kind? This still sounds like our MerC where the low pressure pump went weak and starved the high pressure pump. In your scenario with our boat, it would have started after half an hour or so to cool.
 
Yes it is fuel injected - its an MPI engine.
I went to the marina this morning and had it on the work rack. Was just going to wash it since my tools are an hour away and I don't have my gas filter wrench with me. It started right up -but was running rough. At least I was able to flush the engine out since I am in salt water for the summer (Dry Stack). Since it started I am thinking it must be a fuel issue. My plan is to change the fuel filter tomorrow and also looking for any advice or guidance on other things I should be checking. I'm pretty good with the simple things but if it the repair gets too technical or complicated I will have a qualified mechanic take a look. Thanks again for any suggestions or guidance.
 
Update I did a little more digging on my starting issue. Upon further inspection my flame arrestor was very, very dirty. I could hardly blow air through it. Cleaned it with brake cleaner and a strong hose and got it back to brand new. Also checked my plugs (recently replaced) they were dirty and wet, so I decided to replace them again and use the ones I replaced as a back up for next tune up since I know they are still good. Lastly I replaced the IAC valve.

Tried to start it and just wouldn't turn over. Kept trying. After about 10-15 tries it started to try to turn over and finally got it started. This is on the work rack on a water hose. Once i got it started I put it in neutral and gave it some throttle. Initially was a little rough but it ran smooth after a minute or so. It was noticeably smoother than before. Had to wait until next day to put it in the water and test drive.

The next day got it in the water, again took a few tries to turn over. Once started it ran smooth, real smooth. No popping or hesitation, got to WOT of about 4800 rpms and about 53 mph. Never ran better.

Today I get to marina and it took about 15 tries to get it started. would crank and crank and when I turned key off it would sputter a little. Got it started by shifting to neutral during that stutter and giving it a little throttle. Once warmed up I shut it off and am able to start "right" back up rather easily. However, went to the gas dock, put some fuel in and took a couple of tries again to start it after fueling up. Once started ran perfect again. WOT and top speed reached easily. No hesitation

Any further thoughts on the hard starts? After cranking will sputter a bit and finally catch - sometimes with a little throttle help. Is it not getting fuel through the injectors? Is it the high pressure pump that feeds the injectors? I definitely hear that run when I turn the key

I'm thinking it cant be my low pressure fuel pump because it runs perfect on the water once starter, no hesitation from idle (600 rpms) to WOT (4800rpms).

I tried replacing the anit-siphon valve since its only a $15-$20 part, but on my boat its hard to reach and there's some type of sealant on the threads. I could not budge it.

I think my next step will be to have someone check the high pressure fuel pump and injectors. Anything else I should check based on the updated info?
 
Confused when you say "wouldn't turn over"??? Do you mean it turns over (cranks), but won't fire?
 
Yes cranks but doesn't fire up. Only fires up as I described. Going to marina today to check fuel pressure regulator and fuel pump pressure. I'm still a little stumped since it runs perfect once I get it started. I've done some research, the inside of the Volvo fuel pumps are painted and the ethanol breaks down the paint and causes some flaking. Once I open up the fuel pressure regulator I'll look for this paint flake residue. Maybe that is impeding the fuel on the starts.
 
"checked my plugs (recently replaced) they were dirty and wet, "

Wet with what? Water oil or gas?

Have you looked for water in the lube oil??
 
I believe the engine was flooded after cranking so many times and giving it throttle when I checked the plug it was gas. Have not checked for water in lube oil. I can do that today. Would it run perfectly with water in the oil? My issue is only getting it to fire up.
 
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