Bob,
Your question made me think a good bit. I don't believe you were reckless. You had a well thought out plan and made a number of careful preparations. From what you describe there was nothing "reckless" about what you did. I would say that it was ill-advised. Some might argue that it was foolish or that you were careless after the counsel you received last year. But, it is hard to dispute that you made your trip without incident and I have seen far more foolish things done without the care you gave.
From your original post on your "Ventured .. " thread, it is clear you learned a few things, some of which were surprising to you. I suspect some of what you learned was that you validated the concerns and objections expressed by others here when you asked about the feasibility of travelling to Block Island via your boat. I further suspect that on reflection you have learned from that as well.
For me learning is is more than half the key to continued success. The goal is to do it without getting hurt or breaking anything. If that was your goal it looks like you succeeded. I will only suggest that there are safer, less risky ways to learn.
Enjoy your boat and keep learing !
Your question made me think a good bit. I don't believe you were reckless. You had a well thought out plan and made a number of careful preparations. From what you describe there was nothing "reckless" about what you did. I would say that it was ill-advised. Some might argue that it was foolish or that you were careless after the counsel you received last year. But, it is hard to dispute that you made your trip without incident and I have seen far more foolish things done without the care you gave.
From your original post on your "Ventured .. " thread, it is clear you learned a few things, some of which were surprising to you. I suspect some of what you learned was that you validated the concerns and objections expressed by others here when you asked about the feasibility of travelling to Block Island via your boat. I further suspect that on reflection you have learned from that as well.
For me learning is is more than half the key to continued success. The goal is to do it without getting hurt or breaking anything. If that was your goal it looks like you succeeded. I will only suggest that there are safer, less risky ways to learn.
Enjoy your boat and keep learing !
One might not call this reckless, but I call it ill prepared at best, and according to the Coast Guard, one of the essential pieces of information to know, as replies here have also stated. I had no problem playing dumb with him, as that is the truth regarding my ocean experience.
This thread implies by the standards posted on this poll, a gps, vhf, pfd’s on board, a cell phone (with 5 bars), reading a tide chart, looking at the sky, a fiberglass boat that can’t sink and following what I see others doing are all that is required to head off into the great depths safely, at least that is the impression that this thread and a number of responses has given me. I have all these items, so I guess this thread has been productive to novice ocean boaters like me, and I'm ready to head out…and mine being a bigger bow rider makes no difference, size doesn’t matter. This thread implies, with the above items, a kayak is acceptable, as one could argue, and Bob would if it suited his whim of the day like the resurrected smart tabs thread. I come to this site for 80 percent knowledge and 20 percent entertainment……when it’s all entertainment, which is the way Bob would have it, I’m gone. I don’t clown around about running my boat.
Actually the Coast Guard was a bit guarded in his answer when I said I had no ocean experience...reckless or careless....both can and do result in the same dead condition. I've seen just as many bad things resulting from carelessness as recklessness, so I guess that is a play on words.
As Bob says "whatever"
Bob, is your survey complete?
*Were your kids on board?
*Did you not say that you had a hard time keeping your bow high enough on the way back in?
*Did you not indicate that you were not prepared with knowlege of how to place yourself on waves to keep from broaching?
*Did you know what broaching was?
*Did you indicate this was your first time on an inlet?
*Did you mention the height of the waves in the inlet?
Must have slipped your mind, when you created the survey! I'm sure you would not stack the deck just to prove your point, not to you, but to everyone else. Personally I disagree with those who say categorically that a bowrider is always inappropriate. I think you were reckless because you ultimately decided that you did "research", instead of making the mental note about what the minimum level of knowlege required and a substantive analysis of whether you did "enough research". I think you were reckless because you brought other people along for the ride, on your first time through.
One other point, that for you I think is relevant. Even if you get 95% of the people on here to say that you were not reckless, I will still think that you were. The point, which I belive you will obstinately miss because I have clearly pissed you off, is that on the water there is only one persons opinion that counts. The point is that person has to independantly determine what is or is not safe. You can always tell a person with, in my opinion, the right attitude, because they cop an attitude of needing to know more until proven otherwise. What you continue to show me is the attitude of not needing to know more and wanting to win personality contests. That's why I think your are reckless and that you still don't "get it". Becasue, in my opinion, I have peed you off and you are more interested now in proving me wrong, than learning the truth. The mark of a seafarer personality would be a thread phrased something like "Ghost has a good point about me being reckless and in hindsight I now see his point, how many of you though think that he is a real ahole?" If you put that survey up, I might actually vote in your favor.
I don't know how to convey that to you more clearly.
bp
*Were your kids on board?
*Did you not say that you had a hard time keeping your bow high enough on the way back in?
*Did you not indicate that you were not prepared with knowlege of how to place yourself on waves to keep from broaching?
*Did you know what broaching was?
*Did you indicate this was your first time on an inlet?
*Did you mention the height of the waves in the inlet?
Must have slipped your mind, when you created the survey! I'm sure you would not stack the deck just to prove your point, not to you, but to everyone else. Personally I disagree with those who say categorically that a bowrider is always inappropriate. I think you were reckless because you ultimately decided that you did "research", instead of making the mental note about what the minimum level of knowlege required and a substantive analysis of whether you did "enough research". I think you were reckless because you brought other people along for the ride, on your first time through.
One other point, that for you I think is relevant. Even if you get 95% of the people on here to say that you were not reckless, I will still think that you were. The point, which I belive you will obstinately miss because I have clearly pissed you off, is that on the water there is only one persons opinion that counts. The point is that person has to independantly determine what is or is not safe. You can always tell a person with, in my opinion, the right attitude, because they cop an attitude of needing to know more until proven otherwise. What you continue to show me is the attitude of not needing to know more and wanting to win personality contests. That's why I think your are reckless and that you still don't "get it". Becasue, in my opinion, I have peed you off and you are more interested now in proving me wrong, than learning the truth. The mark of a seafarer personality would be a thread phrased something like "Ghost has a good point about me being reckless and in hindsight I now see his point, how many of you though think that he is a real ahole?" If you put that survey up, I might actually vote in your favor.
I don't know how to convey that to you more clearly.
bp
The "Poll" function does not seem to be working for me today. Last night I upgraded FireFox. Is that causing the problem?
Bob, I've been boating with the same vessel for 16 yrs and know how it handles in all kinds of waters and conditions. I have never even considered going out the Gate with this boat because I do not have the correct experience for that venture. I'll happily go with someone who has that experience, usually a professional skipper in his boat.
If the sea's call to you is that strong, trade in that bowrider for a more "seaworthy" boat designed to handle the big water out the inlet [and coming in].
Bob, I've been boating with the same vessel for 16 yrs and know how it handles in all kinds of waters and conditions. I have never even considered going out the Gate with this boat because I do not have the correct experience for that venture. I'll happily go with someone who has that experience, usually a professional skipper in his boat.
If the sea's call to you is that strong, trade in that bowrider for a more "seaworthy" boat designed to handle the big water out the inlet [and coming in].
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I think he was reckless too!
Question: How many people here think that low tide means no current?
Well I must say not me, but would like to be educated on that, no jokes, please explain the reason for the question. My experience tells me that current exists when the tide is either going out or coming in, slack tide presents no current.
Walter
Well I must say not me, but would like to be educated on that, no jokes, please explain the reason for the question. My experience tells me that current exists when the tide is either going out or coming in, slack tide presents no current.
Walter
Bob,
You are on the right track. It appears that you have prepared what you thought you would need by your list. The recommendations from this forum will add to that list and your desire to learn will build the experience you need to answer a young lad someday when they ask as you have.
I had a charter one day where the young ladies had invited a couple of coasties along. During our sunset cruise I asked one of the coasties (these guys fly the helicopters out of Clearwater Florida) what would be the most important piece of safety gear to carry. They both said (in stereo) a mirror. Something to reflect while they look for you against the shiny sparkling water.
The wind will move a small craft at a very fast clip far away from where the may-day went out far over the horizon,therefore for a disabled vessel I think ground tackle that will hold in very deep water.
Good Luck,
L.C.
"It's not the vessel, it's the voyage"
You are on the right track. It appears that you have prepared what you thought you would need by your list. The recommendations from this forum will add to that list and your desire to learn will build the experience you need to answer a young lad someday when they ask as you have.
I had a charter one day where the young ladies had invited a couple of coasties along. During our sunset cruise I asked one of the coasties (these guys fly the helicopters out of Clearwater Florida) what would be the most important piece of safety gear to carry. They both said (in stereo) a mirror. Something to reflect while they look for you against the shiny sparkling water.
The wind will move a small craft at a very fast clip far away from where the may-day went out far over the horizon,therefore for a disabled vessel I think ground tackle that will hold in very deep water.
Good Luck,
L.C.
"It's not the vessel, it's the voyage"
Reckless? Depends:
1. What is the safest time to run this inlet? Slack tide, slack tide after a flood tide or ebb tide? How much time do you have around slack tide before things could become dangerous?
2. What is the average wind speed and wave height at this time of year?
3. When they occur, how tall are the standing waves?
4. How soon can standing waves form in this inlet?
5. Does the Coast Guard offer a real-time inlet notice to all mariners?
These are but a complete list of questions I had before I took a 37' Aft Cabin over the Columbia Bar in 1999.
I guess I could have just observed the bar from shore for a few hours and followed some smaller boats out the next day.
Or I could have soiled myself when I happened upon a 12' standing wave after a calm and sunny couple of hours of fishing.
You'll be safe most of the time, yes. But when any number of unpredictable and independent variables align themselves, you'll be dead in a 20' bowrider. It is just a matter of time.
1. What is the safest time to run this inlet? Slack tide, slack tide after a flood tide or ebb tide? How much time do you have around slack tide before things could become dangerous?
2. What is the average wind speed and wave height at this time of year?
3. When they occur, how tall are the standing waves?
4. How soon can standing waves form in this inlet?
5. Does the Coast Guard offer a real-time inlet notice to all mariners?
These are but a complete list of questions I had before I took a 37' Aft Cabin over the Columbia Bar in 1999.
I guess I could have just observed the bar from shore for a few hours and followed some smaller boats out the next day.
Or I could have soiled myself when I happened upon a 12' standing wave after a calm and sunny couple of hours of fishing.
You'll be safe most of the time, yes. But when any number of unpredictable and independent variables align themselves, you'll be dead in a 20' bowrider. It is just a matter of time.
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Bob, the answer is simple ( it is also one you have received before ): You are asking the wrong question. The correct question should be, "Am I qualified to perform this action?"
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OMG! Bob, Just go out and buy a BIGGER BOAT! LOL!
B
blouderback
Guest
FYI, no family on board, just me and my somewhat lesser experienced buddy. I didn't know it was called "broaching" but I was concerned about being perpedicular to the rollers, so I made sure I never got that way. This was my first time through the inlet, but I cruised by it a few times last year (chickened out), then this year did some more serious recon before going through. I would estimate that the height of the LARGEST wave/roller was probably 3 feet tall. They seemed rather far apart, I'd guess about 30 yards or so. I did say it felt like the bow was too low, but only because on the way out (running against the incomming tide), I was able to keep the bow up REAL high, and that made me feel like I had more control, and less chance of a wave coming over the bow. I was somewhat prepared for the waves, in that I knew I wanted to keep the bow up, but on the way back it, I felt that I couldn't keep it up as much as I could on the way out.
Brett, I wasn't out to "prove" you wrong, I just wanted a quantitative opinion on whether or not I was reckless. Contrary to what some believe, I do value the opinion of many on this board, and I HAVE learned from these threads and other in the past!
Brett, I wasn't out to "prove" you wrong, I just wanted a quantitative opinion on whether or not I was reckless. Contrary to what some believe, I do value the opinion of many on this board, and I HAVE learned from these threads and other in the past!
- Joined
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Papillon wrote: "You'll be safe most of the time, yes. But when any number of unpredictable and independent variables align themselves, you'll be dead in a 20' bowrider. It is just a matter of time."
Yeah, it will take me a long time to forget the "watch for floating body" Coast Guard message on 16,
when a 21 foot long FISHING BOAT flipped over in Jones Inlet. Three guys were dumped into the sea, and the Coast Guard was only able to rescue two, while injuring several Coast Guard heros in the fast flowing inlet tidal rip.
I have seen too many dead bodies in the water, even picking up body parts (human brains look like hamburger), to take this thread lightly.
Yeah, it will take me a long time to forget the "watch for floating body" Coast Guard message on 16,
when a 21 foot long FISHING BOAT flipped over in Jones Inlet. Three guys were dumped into the sea, and the Coast Guard was only able to rescue two, while injuring several Coast Guard heros in the fast flowing inlet tidal rip.
I have seen too many dead bodies in the water, even picking up body parts (human brains look like hamburger), to take this thread lightly.
B
blouderback
Guest
Why would I anchor in an inlet? By the way, I have 2 anchors.
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Bob? Bob's not here.