Who has the right of way?

B

BoatCrazy

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I took the small boat out yesterday for a nice long ride. I started out in Massapequa by Florence beach, and headed east. I ran the the flatts till I got to then of Massapequa where I picked up the channel running east. I plan on going into the Amityville Cut, so I look before turning (right, well south), and there is a boat about 100yards off my stern running on plane NOT in the channel. I start to slow down because its a tight turn, though I was still on plane. Once I saw the guy off my stern NOT change course, I backed off the throttle and remained dead in the water, waiting for him to pass..

He jumps off plane and tells me to grow some F-ing brains..At this point Im ready to jump onto his boat and give him the beat down he deserves. He pulls next to my boat and we start talking and he tells me that I have to yield to him..I said, "why am I yielding to you? You're not even in the damn channel" He called me a good for nothing jackrb2@gr5tss, and just drove off. I had a buddy on the boat and he was completely shocked as to what just happened..

Once he left, I went back up on plane, stopped at Tobay for breakfast, then proceeded my way into jones inlet, ran west in the ocean looking at long beach, came in through the rock inlet, went under the atlantic beach bridge, and then back to massapequa I went..

SO what could I have done differently with the guy who wasnt in the channel? I only backed out of the throttle so I wouldnt get run over by him..I couldnt slow down, because I had boats coming at me and two from behind me in the channel...
 
the short answer to your question is that nobody had the right of way because there is not such a thing in the nav rules unless you were in the western rivers :)

quite a few nav rules seems to have been ignored in this instance, like failure to signal before passing and failure to maintain course and speed!

if the guy was behind you and going at more or less the same speed, you would have been better off making a turn into the channel you wanted to turn in. ideally preceding the turn by a call on 16 to advise him of your intentions. of course if he was behind but off to the side where you intended to turn then you shoudl have made a gradual turn to make sure he understood your intentions.

if he was going faster and about to pass you, tehn you are the stand on vessel and he is the give way... in simplistic words that means you had the right of way. BUT you are required to maintain course and speed until he passes you. that's where your maneuver (slowing down) becomes an issue...

another BUT... before starting the pass, he should have contacted you on 16 to make passing arrangements or sounded approriate signals (1 or 2 short blast depending on the side he was going to pass). if he had signaled intention to pass on the side you were going to turn, you would have replied with 5 shorts to deny the request and he should have slowed down and aborted the pass staying behind.

of course this is all theory because most boaters dont' use their VHF, don't know the meaning of horn signals and even if they do, their lil factory installed horns can't be heard 50' away...

if the guy had any common sense, he woudln't have passed you on the side of the channel just in case you intended on turning into that channel, he should have passed you on the other side.

from your post, it seems like you feel that being the channel affects who has "the right of way".. it really doens't. the only impact of a channel is rule 9 about not interfering with the navigations of vessels who can only navigate in a narrow channel... not the case here, the channel is irrelevant.

confused yet? :)
 
I am not an authority, and not exactly certain of his position to you. But my understanding is that in an overtaking situation, the boat being overtaken is the stand-on boat, and the overtaking boat is the give-way boat. Meaning that if I am passing you, you stay on course, and I give way by going around you. Of course, the overtaking boat is suppose to signal his intention to you and await your response. Two short blasts means "I want to pass on your Port". If you agree, you acknowledge with two short blasts. One blast for overtaking on Starboard. If it is not safe for the boat to overtake you, you are supposed to signal 5 short blasts, in response to his request.

I hope this helps.
 
a) his being in the channel or not is irrelevant.

b) If he was not passing you, then you were not the stand on vessel. Once you slowed down, he became the passing vessel and became burdened. OR you became the vessel who was required to stay out of his way ( You were ahead of his beam, on his port side ). In any event, he should simply have continued on.

c) It was silly to get into such a discussion.

d) Usage of proper signaling devices ( horn, VHF ) might have resolved this issue amicably.

e) Your description seems contradictory, and I am not sure I have read your and his actions correctly.

f) Slowing to a drift was probably a good plan, especially since there was no other communications.

-edit-

PascalG said it better than I did...
 
You were the stand on vessel, but you still have the responsibility to avoid an accident.
If you were not sure of his intentions, try calling on the VHF. If no answer, then you
have to do what you think is right to prevent an accident. If what you did prevented an
accident, then you did the right thing, no matter what he said. He should have contacted
you are sounded his horn if he wanted to pass.
Even if you were the stand on vessel and did the right thing by the book and got in a
collision, and you saw him coming behind you, you both would be held at fault.
I have a good friend who has been in litigation for years over an accident where he was
going by the book.
He was at hull speed, going down the ship channel, and a drunk operator in a go fast boat
came out of a bayou and T-boned my friends boat before he could react. The drunk operator
was killed and his passenger was injured. My friend, his girlfriend and her son were injured.
The drunk operators family is sueing my friend who was sober and operating in a safe manner,
for killing their son. The judge would not throw the case out, even though my friend was
operating his boat in a safe manner.
My friend has spent a lot of money on lawyers and his insurance has also. All for doing the
right thing.
 
I tried hailing him on the radio via channel 16. The particular cut I was trying to get into, there is not real room for error. There is hardly enough water inside the channel let alone continue on my way, and wait for him to pass me..

I was taught those in the channel have the right of way, since by running the flatts, you are on your own. Maybe Im wrong in that thinking and thats fine.

Lets just say it was the most bizarre thing I have seen on the water in several years. What gets me, is this guy thinks he was right and I think I was right. If you know the local waters where I am talking about, then people will realize this guy was running the flatts in a 25ft boat with 6'' of water below him...
 
You did what you thought was right and you didn't get in an accident.
That sounds good enough to me.
 
"this guy was running the flatts in a 25ft boat with 6'' of water below him..."

Happens all of the time here. ( Which is not to say that it is wise. ) That plan works, as long as you encounter no waves, stumps or crab traps and you don't slow down.

In any event, the fact that "he was running the flats" is irrelevant to the RoR.
 
Since you said there was no room for error neither of you should have been on plane. If he was so stupid you should give way. It is your live on the line.
 
What kind of a statement is neither of you should have been on plane? I run that channel all the time, I know where there is water, and I know where there is no water..most inlets leave no room for error, do you suggest everyone jump off plane and proceed at 5mph?

The guy running the flatts was only out of the channel by 100 feet. Would it have killed him to run inside the channel like every else does? Im all for running the flatts, but when you run the flatts, your an outsider looking in, and you have to respect the people in the channel...
 
I always give right of way...I dont need an accident or to be injured, or to injure anyone else.. I'm never in a hurry when boating, so everyone has the right of way when near me...
 
Seems to be a common misconception around here, that a channel is like a highway for cars, and boats running in a channel need never yield to anyone crossing their path from any direction. Just had this issue with a guy on Sunday at the intersection of State Channel and Amityville Cut. He approached from our port at the 90 degree channel crossing. Then started screaming because he had to turn 5 degrees to starboard to pass behind us. "I'm in the channel" he says. We were both in the channel, so what.
 
There are lots of rules, lots of regulations, lots of procedures, problem is most don't know them!!!

In short, don't count on rules, regulations or procedures, your in a jungle, proceed with that in mind, proceed with caution, and remember, the bigger boat wins :)

Forget about "maritime law", forget about what your taught is right, when you in the jungle, its about survival of the fittest.

My advice on boating on the south shore of Long Island:

Assume everyone does not have a clue, take offensive measures based on that, and just teach those on your vessel, what the right thing would have been.

JUST MY 2C as a 30 year dude on the south shore!!!!!!!!
 
"I was taught those in the channel have the right of way, since by running the flatts, you are on your own. Maybe Im wrong in that thinking and thats fine."

well, again yes and no. Rule 9 is the only rule covering channels and it's pretty clear:

RULE 9
Narrow Channels
(a) A vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway
shall keep as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which Iies on
her starboard side as is safe and practicable.
(b) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not
impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a
narrow channel or fairway.
(c) A vessel engaged in fishing shall not impede the passage of any other
vessel navigating within a narrow channel or fairway.
(d) A vessel shall not cross a narrow channel or fairway if such crossing
impedes the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within such
channel or fairway.

so.. yes. if you are in a narrow channel and can not safely navigate outside then you "have the right of way" over someone crossing the channel. but when in doubt, and since whether or not a small boat can navigate outside a small channel isnt' clear cut, you did the right thing.

"My advice on boating on the south shore of Long Island:

Assume everyone does not have a clue, take offensive measures based on that, and just teach those on your vessel, what the right thing would have been."

Walter, try south florida if you think LI SS is bad!!

i'm not familiar with the area but i woudl assume he was running over the flats because it was high tide?
 
Do like I do and try to avoid boating around here on Sundays after about 11:00 AM, and on any major holidays. I find it's much better for my blood pressure.
If you must go out during those times, then just assume everyone else out there is either drunk, doesn't know the rules, or both.
 
Pascal, it was low tide, which is why I couldnt understand why he was running the flatts..
 
Capt Paul Watson sez ...... "When in doubt always throw bottles of butyric acid at the offending vessel"
 
Boat Crazy..... Your Signature reads; "1985 V4 Johnson 120hp with a V6 gear case -"

Is that some type of hot setup to have?
 
JLC, not sure by what you mean a hot setup..Most V4 120hp have a short shaft with a V4 gear case, this has a long shaft with a V6 gear case. Its practically indestructible from what I have read..
 
quote:
Originally posted by BoatCrazy

JLC, not sure by what you mean a hot setup..Most V4 120hp have a short shaft with a V4 gear case, this has a long shaft with a V6 gear case. Its practically indestructible from what I have read..

Click to expand...


I meant that would someone go out of their way to build that set-up because its the best of all worlds?

Or was it some type of cool thing that the outboard guys do because of performance.

Because you made the effort to post it I thought there must be something special about it....so I "axed".

I don't think I ever saw someone post their lower unit spec's on an outboard outside of the Scream & Fly racing forums that I'm also a member of. So I was wondering what the gain was by doing that (putting the V6 lower on it).

I guess in your case it was because you needed a long shaft and they were interchangeable?
 
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