2003 Yamaha 225 FS-No Start in water-Starts at Hom

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Richiela

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2003 Four stroke Yamaha 225 with 280 fresh water hours. Last year ran perfect. This spring I changed the Yamaha 10 micron filter and engined mounted paper filter.
First time out this year I purchased 25 gallons of Mobil 93 octane gas, then added Marine stabil. Ran boat in lake for hour with no problems. Boat stalled at idle and would not restart. cranks fine. At home, I filled up a large tub and and engine starts and runs all day no issue. I suspected the new gas and drained 20 gallons. It didn't smell very strong, instead it smelled weak?? Color was Yellow? The primer bulb never really gets hard, but I seldom used it to start the engine.
While cranking the engine at home I removed the VST tank drain screw and plenty of fuel was spraying out.

I'm not comfortable with simply trying different gas, Any Ideas?
thanks
 
I suggest verifying spark at the plugs since you seem to think the gas is where it needs to be.
 
I will check the spark, Does the Yellowish fuel raise any flags?
 
You added fresh fuel, was it empty or was there unstabilized fuel already in it.
Mixing good fuel with bad will make more bad fuel.
Can you hook up to a auxillary tank with fresh fuel?
And why stabilize brand new fuel, sta-bil is for storage unless you added the ethanol treatment.
 
quote:
Originally posted by CurrentSea

And why stabilize brand new fuel, sta-bil is for storage unless you added the ethanol treatment.

Click to expand...


Because it makes a lot less sense to stabilize fuel after it has started to deteriorate than to keep fresh condition as long as possible. And you never know when you or the boat may be laid up unexpectedly, or for much longer than expected.

That's why I've bought nothing but Valv-tect (stabilized)marine gas for a long time now. Well, that and the fact it has been 100% reliable and happens to be the least expensive gas within at least 15NM.
 
I stabilized what I believed to be good fuel at the end of last season, then when I added 25 New gallons I added more stabil. I use the boat only 30-40 hours year.

I started the boat again at home today- No problem ran fine.

As a good measure, I installed new spark plugs as well. The old plugs did not look too wet or lean.

Tomorrow I will remove the remaining fuel.
 
I removed all of the remaining gas. It seemed less potent as I reach the last of the gas. Drained the VST tank as well. Tonight I will add new fuel, dry gas, startron, Yamaha Ring Free and stabil.
 
FWIW - I have had a number of Yamaha 4 strokes over the past years and this does not sound like a fuel problem at all.
Starts at home, a sudden no run in use, no stumbling , no half running , a completely dead situation which occurs out of the blue
And again at home it starts and runs fine. The engine itself does not know whether it is at home or out on the water so something is affecting its ability to run. That affect is making a full 'on' or 'off' result with little or no major intervention as you have not replaced or serviced any parts in between these events. The filters (any of them) do not show water or yield water when they are looked at and/or drained.
I would be looking for a kill switch problem either within the starting circuit or at the ignition key area. Depending upon which Yamaha controls you have on the boat this could be an issue at the key, the safety landyard, the neutral circuit at the control board or various other spots along the ignition line at the motor.

Good luck and hope this helps
 
Smitty- I appreciate your insight and agree. Typically I simply turn the key and it starts, no pumping the bulb, not messing with the shifter etc.

I read on another forum about excess oil could be a issue?
I spoke to local Yamaha dealer and he was doubtful of the oil problem, instead he thought I should look at the low pressure fuel relief valve.
I will switch the lanyard switch tonight with a DVM.
thanks for your help.
 
Hello Richiela - It can be anywhere along the ignition circuit - it can be the microswitch where the shift cable meets the shifting shaft under the bonnet.
Just does not play out like a fuel problem from your description.
hope this helps
 
You said the boat stalled at idle and woudl not restart but cranked fine, That eliminates starter issues, safety switches, etc...

It sounds to me like crap in the carbs. I m not familiar with the 250hp but on our tender 50hp yam 4 stroke of the same year, I had that issue a couple of time. Crap clogged the low speed jet of two carbs and prevented the engine from starting and idling. That happened right when slowing down with th engine running fine at speed. Barely made it coasting back to the boat.

Actually right now, it s running great at speed, over 2300 but rough at low speed, I suspect the low speed jet on one of the carb is clogged up again. I was told the low speed jets are smaller than the high speed jets and more prone to clogging.

Now, why is it fine now at home? Well maybe whatever got in there cleared itself... Happened to me once.
 
Until you check for spark everything else is speculation
 
"You said the boat stalled at idle and woudl not restart but cranked fine, That eliminates starter issues, safety switches, etc..."

Here is what happened with us a few times with our twin 150 Yamaha 4 strokes.
Boat would have a rough idle at low rpm's and then stall in gear.
For one reason or another operator would not be able to regain full neutral and then could not start the engine - it would crank but no ignition. Fault traced to a control panel (hidden) for our controls once and to the kill switch connection on another occasion.
I would pull the safety switch when winterizing to allow the engine to crank without spark for adding fogging oil in the system.

If the engine has a VST as stated it is positioned with the high pressure pump prior to the fuel cooler and the engine is injected. Our 115 Yamaha and the twin 150 Yamahas has fuel injection with the VST's and the rest of the fuel system. The VST has a filter in its base which can cause issues as well but the symptoms still do not lead me to assume that is an area of concern.
If fuel is the only issue I would expect it to 'start' a bit and stutter at least on a couple of cylinders.

Hope this helps
 
"Actually right now, it s running great at speed, over 2300 but rough at low speed, I suspect the low speed jet on one of the carb is clogged up again. I was told the low speed jets are smaller than the high speed jets and more prone to clogging."

Ethanol fuels have commonly caused a build up of contaminants fouling the smaller carb jets. We have had this issue repeatedly on a couple of triple cylinder outboards Yamaha, Nissan and Tohatsu. Pulling the jets and cleaning the carbs helped each time but we ended up in the same situation eventually. We only made a permanent fix when we removed and replaced all of the black rubber fuel lines leading to and between the carbs with new fuel hose which was rated for ethanol fuels. Seems like much of the black crud was forming and remaining in the lines just waiting to get back out there are ruin our engines idle and lower end running.

Hope this helps
 
Other then the Lanyard switch, where are the other ignition related switches?

thanks
 
"Other then the Lanyard switch, where are the other ignition related switches?"

If you are getting a spark (as pdecat posted) then there is nothing to check as the spark is not interrupted.
If you are not getting a spark the fuel situation does not matter.

Dependent upon year and the exact Yamaha controls you have there can be many spark interruptions in line.
Most all share the key switch, kill lanyard and trans microswitch under the outboard cover - each can be 'ohmed out' or 'jumped' to check for problems. Mine also had a control panel computer under the dash, a low oil pressure one, an overheat one and another sensor on the engine I never quite figured out.

My best thoughts are is you have no spark and cannot reasonably figure it out it may be best to take it to a Yamaha tech. And not just someone that says they work on outboards but a certified Yamaha tech as they will find it much sooner for less pain then guessing by others.
If you do have a consistent spark then the diagnosis can move on to other potential items.

Hope this helps

BTW - your gauges do activate each time you turn the key correct?
 
Yes the gauges are activated with the key on. This weekend I'm going to really dig into the ignition system and determine if we actually have spark. As of right now then is no gas in tank.
 
Are there also only 280 hours on the Wiring Harness? In old boats/outboards, I've seen where flexing as the boat steered and the motor trimmed/tilted would break wires in the harness, usually right where it entered the motor cowling. I guess the degree to which the harness flexes when tilting, and how often it's tilted, could affect how long it took for a failure to occur.
 
More Updates: As previously stated, from 40 gallons of gas. Purchased 10 gallons of new 87 octane. Added typical Blue Marine stabil, Startron, 1oz of Yamaha ring free and one bottle of dry gas. Boat started righted up with little bulb priming. Once running bulb required very little effort to get firm. I have been busy working on the home pool and noticed a slight water pump leak on my truck, so no boating today...
 
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