Bigger Boat suggestions (Trojan 10 meter input)
- Thread starter gardnersf
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- Feb 1, 2007
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In 2001 I insured her $40,000 which was far more than I paid and more than I had in her alltogether.
I did a 3 part survey with the repower. First a haulout with a survey that did not include the engines to confirm the integrity of the hull, stringers and everything else and to make sure she was worthy of the repower.
The surveyor returned with the engines out just to inspect the stringers a bit closer and better.
Finally an on the water survey after trhe engines were installed to complete the process. She surveyed at a far gteater value than the insured value, however I was able to increase the insured value to $80,000 no problem.
I have always been insured with Boat US.
When I bought her in 1981 she had been on the market for ten months and I was the first offer. I came in low and the owner felt insulted, however the broker was really good and although it took nearly a month the broker was able to put the deal together.
The Broker makes it less personal for the seller and easier for the buyer. It takes the "personalities" and emotions out of the deal.
Good luck with your offer.
RWS
I did a 3 part survey with the repower. First a haulout with a survey that did not include the engines to confirm the integrity of the hull, stringers and everything else and to make sure she was worthy of the repower.
The surveyor returned with the engines out just to inspect the stringers a bit closer and better.
Finally an on the water survey after trhe engines were installed to complete the process. She surveyed at a far gteater value than the insured value, however I was able to increase the insured value to $80,000 no problem.
I have always been insured with Boat US.
When I bought her in 1981 she had been on the market for ten months and I was the first offer. I came in low and the owner felt insulted, however the broker was really good and although it took nearly a month the broker was able to put the deal together.
The Broker makes it less personal for the seller and easier for the buyer. It takes the "personalities" and emotions out of the deal.
Good luck with your offer.
RWS
RWS, the offer is pending a Survey including a sea trial. Thanks for all the info, I did get a confirmed quote from Boat US insurance, so I wil be fine if the deal goes through. I may shop around but have heard BoatUS is good to deal with. I have USAA now which I love, but yacht insurance is not their strong suit.
I've just passed up a 36 Trojan MY; It was acceptable in most every way until I walked the gunwales and bow areas. It felt a little "spongy" beneath my feet. It came to Memphis from Fla. Was it dunked???? The price c. $50K. Oh well there will be others.
- Joined
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- 1,698
My Trojan International was anchored in the middle of our canal as ther eye of Hurricane Charley, a strong Cat 4 Storm passed overhead. Although she ripped out 2 concrete pilings and pulled down a wooden one, the only damage to her other than some gelcoat nicks was the Radar Arch, which was severly damaged and had to be removed. (we replaced the rotted wood in the arch with welded aluminum tubes and plates.
Boat US Insurance came out and I had a check in just a few days.
Four boats were sunk on our canal and Boat US Insurance proved to be invaluable compared to the stories of some other folks.
Use your survey as a negotiating tool if anything other than minor surprises come up.
I believe you'll like the sound of those side exhausts from the helm and will soon get the feel of synchronizing the engines to the sound. You'll also appreciate how easy she is to dock with the engines spaced so wide apart.
These 1981-1994 Internationals have been out of the limelight for over a decade now and represent a tremendous value in today's market for those who can deal with the issues inherent with an older vessel.
Good Luck,
RWS
Boat US Insurance came out and I had a check in just a few days.
Four boats were sunk on our canal and Boat US Insurance proved to be invaluable compared to the stories of some other folks.
Use your survey as a negotiating tool if anything other than minor surprises come up.
I believe you'll like the sound of those side exhausts from the helm and will soon get the feel of synchronizing the engines to the sound. You'll also appreciate how easy she is to dock with the engines spaced so wide apart.
These 1981-1994 Internationals have been out of the limelight for over a decade now and represent a tremendous value in today's market for those who can deal with the issues inherent with an older vessel.
Good Luck,
RWS
RWS,
Thanks for all your help on this. I spent a good 90 minutes crawling over the boat, looking at construction details, tracing piping systems, etc. All in all the boat is in very good shape. I was impressed with the build quality. It is better than my current boat and I consider mine above average for the era. Teh galsswork is very good, and everywhere I could see, I saw evidence of through bolting. The rub rail alone was impressive. It must be backed with 1.5 inches of rubber. It is meant to be used. Another minor deatil of quality were the portholes. The frame was stanless steel, not plastic, the closures were threaded SS fittings and I believe there were 6 more screws holding it together than on my portholes.
The big wild card is mechanical operation. The engines, fuel tanks, generator, etc. looked good. No evidence of unaddressed leakage and the engine mounts were not rust buckets like some I saw. Still, you never know until you fire it up. With 730 hours on the engines and 380 on the gen set, I at least know the boat was used. However. It has been on land for a year. Some of the cokpit uphoilstery needs attention, but mostly the bolsters. It's actualy in better shape than I expected. The color is a marbled gray which looked like mildew on the pictures, but is the intended color and is in good shape.
Funny you mention the engine spacing. I looked at the same age 34 Sea Ray and I always thought the engines were too close . It makes access painful. Teh reason Sea Ray did that was to have the fuel tanks outboard. I think with the extar 12" beam and a slightly shorter cabin allowed Trojan to bettr place the fuel tanks.
One question I did have was the location of the potable water tank and pump. I ran out of time while tracing pipes, finding all the headwaste stuff. Is it behind the access panel on the port side locker for the mid cabin. It has to be near the stairs based on the fill location.
Thanks for all your help on this. I spent a good 90 minutes crawling over the boat, looking at construction details, tracing piping systems, etc. All in all the boat is in very good shape. I was impressed with the build quality. It is better than my current boat and I consider mine above average for the era. Teh galsswork is very good, and everywhere I could see, I saw evidence of through bolting. The rub rail alone was impressive. It must be backed with 1.5 inches of rubber. It is meant to be used. Another minor deatil of quality were the portholes. The frame was stanless steel, not plastic, the closures were threaded SS fittings and I believe there were 6 more screws holding it together than on my portholes.
The big wild card is mechanical operation. The engines, fuel tanks, generator, etc. looked good. No evidence of unaddressed leakage and the engine mounts were not rust buckets like some I saw. Still, you never know until you fire it up. With 730 hours on the engines and 380 on the gen set, I at least know the boat was used. However. It has been on land for a year. Some of the cokpit uphoilstery needs attention, but mostly the bolsters. It's actualy in better shape than I expected. The color is a marbled gray which looked like mildew on the pictures, but is the intended color and is in good shape.
Funny you mention the engine spacing. I looked at the same age 34 Sea Ray and I always thought the engines were too close . It makes access painful. Teh reason Sea Ray did that was to have the fuel tanks outboard. I think with the extar 12" beam and a slightly shorter cabin allowed Trojan to bettr place the fuel tanks.
One question I did have was the location of the potable water tank and pump. I ran out of time while tracing pipes, finding all the headwaste stuff. Is it behind the access panel on the port side locker for the mid cabin. It has to be near the stairs based on the fill location.
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2007
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- 25075
- Messages
- 1,698
ChexBippy, My express cruiser does not have the aft cabin. Aft cabin models had the engines placed farther aft and due to the different shaft angle and shorter shafts they used only one strut per side, a higher ratio transmission and smaller props running at a higher RPM.
That said, here's the data on my 1983 express cruiser before the repower.
.84 NMPG (not Statute) was the best I could do while fully loaded with fuel and water on plane in reasonably smooth conditions. That translates to .96 statute miles per gallon. Not too bad, especially when you consider the 13' beam. This data was veirified with a digital tach/synchroniser, a Flowscan and GPS.
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc114/rws1983/RWS_Gas_Engine_Efficiency.jpg
http://s215.photobucket.com/albums/cc114/rws1983/?action=view¤t=RWS_Gas_Engine_Efficiency.jpg
let's see if that link works.
That said, here's the data on my 1983 express cruiser before the repower.
.84 NMPG (not Statute) was the best I could do while fully loaded with fuel and water on plane in reasonably smooth conditions. That translates to .96 statute miles per gallon. Not too bad, especially when you consider the 13' beam. This data was veirified with a digital tach/synchroniser, a Flowscan and GPS.
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc114/rws1983/RWS_Gas_Engine_Efficiency.jpg
http://s215.photobucket.com/albums/cc114/rws1983/?action=view¤t=RWS_Gas_Engine_Efficiency.jpg
let's see if that link works.
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2007
- RO Number
- 25075
- Messages
- 1,698
Scott,
Build quality, engineering and design are the big plusses with this boat. All Trojans enjoy a good reputation as solid boats. The factory location in Lancaster, PA resulted in the majority of the employees being Pennsylvania Dutch. The craftsmanship is obvious.
While the Trojan Internationals don't have the stature of a Bert or a Hatt, they are lightyears above your average mass produced, popular vessels of that vintage or even the new ones being produced today.
You can still get parts that are specific to the brand, there are two dealers in Lancaster PA that were once part of the Trojan company and they have specific hardware items that will fit. Other items are available at Boatfix and other chandlery suppliers. Engine and drivetrain items are the same. My vessel had over 2,600 hours on her engines when I bought her and I put several hundred on top of that before retiring them (one had been rebuilt sometime in her past) The boat was certainly worthy of a repower and now she's fantastic.
On the express cruiser the fresh water tank and the waste tank are moulded into the hull. The freshwater tank is forward, between the stringers and is 40 gallons. Just aft of that is an open area with a bilge pump and then just behind the next main bulkhead is the 40 gallon waste tank, again moulded in between the stringers. This one has a removable lid that also functions as the engine room floor and runs from the bulkhead to the end of the battery box. I removed and resealed mine durnig the engine refitting.
A very important safety item was missed on my survey which thankfully I accidentally found three years later and corrected. The 12v side of the electrical panel has two main breakers which control numerous toggle switches for the left and right corresponding sides of the 12v side of systems. What was missed is that EACH ONE OF THESE LITTLE TOGGLE SWITCHES IS ACTUALLY A BREAKER. (Another unique and clever design) Over the years many of these toggle type breakers made by AIRPAX were replaced with plain, unprotected toggle switches by someone who did not realize that they were actually breakers. While the two main 12v breakers were still in place a component could have easily burned up (I relaced the macerator twice) or worse, a wire could have become shorted out, got hot and caused a more serious loss.
These AIRPAX breakers are rated for different amperages for the various systems. When one trips the paddle switch goes to the middle, much like a regular household breaker. You can tell if you have AIRPAX breakers by looking at the tip of the toggle switch. As compared to others, it should be shorter and have a wide end.
Another safety feature is the horn system was wired into a series of additional bilge pump switches to sound off when the bilge water became higher than normal.
Your vessel also has windshield washers and lights above the electrical panel so you can see your breakers in the dark as there is a switch behind the door.
The Internationals were truly ahead of thier time and stand up well against today's new offerings.
Good luck with your survey.
RWS
Build quality, engineering and design are the big plusses with this boat. All Trojans enjoy a good reputation as solid boats. The factory location in Lancaster, PA resulted in the majority of the employees being Pennsylvania Dutch. The craftsmanship is obvious.
While the Trojan Internationals don't have the stature of a Bert or a Hatt, they are lightyears above your average mass produced, popular vessels of that vintage or even the new ones being produced today.
You can still get parts that are specific to the brand, there are two dealers in Lancaster PA that were once part of the Trojan company and they have specific hardware items that will fit. Other items are available at Boatfix and other chandlery suppliers. Engine and drivetrain items are the same. My vessel had over 2,600 hours on her engines when I bought her and I put several hundred on top of that before retiring them (one had been rebuilt sometime in her past) The boat was certainly worthy of a repower and now she's fantastic.
On the express cruiser the fresh water tank and the waste tank are moulded into the hull. The freshwater tank is forward, between the stringers and is 40 gallons. Just aft of that is an open area with a bilge pump and then just behind the next main bulkhead is the 40 gallon waste tank, again moulded in between the stringers. This one has a removable lid that also functions as the engine room floor and runs from the bulkhead to the end of the battery box. I removed and resealed mine durnig the engine refitting.
A very important safety item was missed on my survey which thankfully I accidentally found three years later and corrected. The 12v side of the electrical panel has two main breakers which control numerous toggle switches for the left and right corresponding sides of the 12v side of systems. What was missed is that EACH ONE OF THESE LITTLE TOGGLE SWITCHES IS ACTUALLY A BREAKER. (Another unique and clever design) Over the years many of these toggle type breakers made by AIRPAX were replaced with plain, unprotected toggle switches by someone who did not realize that they were actually breakers. While the two main 12v breakers were still in place a component could have easily burned up (I relaced the macerator twice) or worse, a wire could have become shorted out, got hot and caused a more serious loss.
These AIRPAX breakers are rated for different amperages for the various systems. When one trips the paddle switch goes to the middle, much like a regular household breaker. You can tell if you have AIRPAX breakers by looking at the tip of the toggle switch. As compared to others, it should be shorter and have a wide end.
Another safety feature is the horn system was wired into a series of additional bilge pump switches to sound off when the bilge water became higher than normal.
Your vessel also has windshield washers and lights above the electrical panel so you can see your breakers in the dark as there is a switch behind the door.
The Internationals were truly ahead of thier time and stand up well against today's new offerings.
Good luck with your survey.
RWS
RWS,
Nice graph, thanks for posting. It is better then I would have expected and looks to be helped by holding plane at a low speed.
From your comments, did the mid-cabin not use V-drives? Just shorter shafts with a greater angle.
Almost all listing put the draft at 2 feet, is this correct or is this the hull draft and it's more like 3 feet with the props?
FYI - They also made a true aft cabin/center cockpit model, not many.
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...ft+Cabin+DIESEL+EXPRESS&photo_name=Stern+View
Gary
Nice graph, thanks for posting. It is better then I would have expected and looks to be helped by holding plane at a low speed.
From your comments, did the mid-cabin not use V-drives? Just shorter shafts with a greater angle.
Almost all listing put the draft at 2 feet, is this correct or is this the hull draft and it's more like 3 feet with the props?
FYI - They also made a true aft cabin/center cockpit model, not many.
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...ft+Cabin+DIESEL+EXPRESS&photo_name=Stern+View
Gary
Wow, that is a wild looking boat. The add says they only made ten of them. I imagine the engines are under the aft cabin. You can see the original lines of the hull.
Another add said they made 24 and they were special order. There are 3 for sale on Yacht World. I believe the 24 number.
Another add said they made 24 and they were special order. There are 3 for sale on Yacht World. I believe the 24 number.
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2007
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- 25075
- Messages
- 1,698
Think about it.
How much time do you spend in the cabin.
Why would you want to sacrifice all that great disco dance ballroom 13' beam cockpit space, wetbar, Lbench seat and fising area for additional berths and a second head?
You end up SACRIFICING the great versatility of the boat for a floating motel.
Here's an aft cabin Flybridge....
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/2/1/88330121.htm
and another minus the flybridge...
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...units=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=4384&url=
How much time do you spend in the cabin.
Why would you want to sacrifice all that great disco dance ballroom 13' beam cockpit space, wetbar, Lbench seat and fising area for additional berths and a second head?
You end up SACRIFICING the great versatility of the boat for a floating motel.
Here's an aft cabin Flybridge....
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/2/1/88330121.htm
and another minus the flybridge...
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...units=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=4384&url=
Update:
So far I have no deal. I was trying to work in my boat as a trade down for the current owner, allowing him to take some cash out of the boat, but still have two boats. He considered it but instead countered with a lower price. At this point, I do not want to be a two boat owner either unless the deal is too good to pass up. We may revisit later, but now winter is getting closer.
So.. I will try to sell my boat and then purchase another. We really weren't quite ready to move, but this boat was intriguing and we were not far off. In any case, I think our next boat wil be a 10 meter mid cabin express.
Thanks for all that posted. I learned a tremendous amount about thsi boat and I am still very interested.
Anyone want to buy a boat?
So far I have no deal. I was trying to work in my boat as a trade down for the current owner, allowing him to take some cash out of the boat, but still have two boats. He considered it but instead countered with a lower price. At this point, I do not want to be a two boat owner either unless the deal is too good to pass up. We may revisit later, but now winter is getting closer.
So.. I will try to sell my boat and then purchase another. We really weren't quite ready to move, but this boat was intriguing and we were not far off. In any case, I think our next boat wil be a 10 meter mid cabin express.
Thanks for all that posted. I learned a tremendous amount about thsi boat and I am still very interested.
Anyone want to buy a boat?