Dried ? out teak - solutions ?

amer2828

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Greetings and thanks for any help. Bought SeaRay Sundancer 85 last year and fixed up - love it. The teak appeared very "dried out" but after applying a few coats of teak out looked great. trouble is it only lasted a few days to a few weeks until needed again. is there anything else to do except recaoting very often? will it ever "catch up" and require less oiling ? any teak oil better or thicker or more penetrating and therefore needed to "oil up " less often

thanks for any help
 
Check out "Cetol" for teak. Follow their instructions for best results. The first year or two will be the most intense. After that, once or twice a year should be all it needs. I like this process much better then varnishing 15 layers every year!
 
Did you clean the teak prior to oiling? If not, the oil is over dirt and mold. Oiling dirty teak is like putting lipstick on a pig.

Google Cleaning teak. There are a ton of articles on how to and how to not. Most of the products mentioned in the articles are available on boatfix.

Good luck. The teak accents on the 70's - 80's Sea Rays really made those boats pop.
 
If you want to keep the maintenance easy, let it weather gray, or check out Cetol.
 
I wanted the no maintenance solution... converted to Bristol finish. Looks wet and deep, and I throw away the teak oil nightmare. I love it.

Ok - 1 annual maintenance step. I'll lightly sand and add 1 coat each winter to keep it looking new. Looked great after 1st full season, may not need it this year.
 
Cetol looks like crap. Sorry, but it does. Bristol Finish looks great, if you can get it to stay. For small trim pieces, I'd be willing to try it.

To get your teak ready, get a 2 part teak cleaner. I've found the Aurora cleaner to be the best. A really good alternative is Oxalic acid if you can get it (at a proper pharmacy). Mix the Oxalic acid with hot, hot water, scrub it into the wood with a stiff brush. Rinse with vinegar to neutralize it. The 2 part cleaners contain oxalic acid so both methods will raise the grain of the wood. You'll need to sand the wood smooth again (down to about 220 grit, no more).

The traditional finish is varnish, and there are a ton of brands. I prefer Epifanes, although it's about the hardest to apply, it lasts better than any other I've found.

Bristol Finish does look really good, very similar to a traditional varnish. The problem with Bristol is that it's a two part urethane and is really hard to repair if you damage a part of the finish. One part finishes are easier to repair. The other problem with Bristol (and most other 2 parts) is that it's really hard and inflexible so if the wood expands at all, then the finish can just lift right off. I've seen and heard horror stories of Bristol lifting right off decks in sheets. I think if prepped right, it might be a good solution for you, though.

Another option is a single part urethane varnish. They're usually clear, so you may have to stain the wood first (and staining teak is a real pain as it doesn't accept stains evenly and it can prevent the urethane from sticking to the wood). I think Interlux makes a urethane that's amber.

My boat is all teak inside and I've been refinishing it for the last few months. I've tried different finishes in the past, and I'm sticking to the Epifanes from now on. It works, it's easy to repair and recoat every year. Another thing, it's easy to strip if you need to. Bristol is a real pain to remove if it starts to go.
 
Traditional finish on teak is varnish? Whoa! Teak isn't "traditionally" covered with anything. The reason coverings don't adhere well to teak is that the natural oils prevent it. If you get tired of scrubbing the teak then you go to the other routes.
 
Agreed, varnish is a terrible choice for finishing teak and has never been the traditional teak finish. Exterior mahogany, fir, and oak can be varnished with excellent results, but I've never seen varnish hold up well on teak.

I know some people who have success with teak oil but it took a lot of work at the outset. They re-oiled repeatedly (like every couple of weeks) at first and then as needed afterward. Gradually, re-oiling was done less frequently as the wood became saturated.

I don't like the look of regular Cetol either, but I recognise that maintaining exterior varnish may be beyond the capabilty of many boat owners. Lots of dockside maintenance used to be part of the boating experience, but that isn't the case with 21st century boaters.

Cetol makes a relatively new product called Cetol for Teak and I've heard some good reports on it.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Flutterby

Check out "Cetol" for teak. Follow their instructions for best results. The first year or two will be the most intense. After that, once or twice a year should be all it needs. I like this process much better then varnishing 15 layers every year!





I don't know anyone who puts 15 coats of varnish on anything every year. I've got about that many exterior varnish coats on my boat and more, but the most I do is one or two sanded varnish overcoats per year (and the boat is kept in a covered slip).
 
I should clarify, I meant traditional spar varnish as opposed to a urethane varnish.
 
quote:

Originally posted by praetorian

I should clarify, I meant traditional spar varnish as opposed to a urethane varnish.





Now you have me curious. Epiphanes is a traditional phenolic resin varnish, just like the Pettit BAK-V-SPAR that I use for exterior and interior varnish. The difference between the two is in the mix: ratio of oil to solvents, tung oil and linseed oil ratio, UV inhibitors, etc. I believe Pettit BAK-V-SPAR is the best varnish there is. My current exterior varnish has been on the boat for 10 years and shows no sign that it has to be taken down to bare wood anytime in the future.

But, everyone has their favorite varnish and I wouldn't attempt to question your choice.

I think the issue here is finishing exterior teak with varnish. Have you finished a teak swim platform or deck with varnish? How long has that varnish been on the teak?

Keep in mind there is teak and there is teak. The teak used on boat interiors it usually the cheaper plantation-grown teak that contains comparatively little oil. I wouldn't be surprised if varnish works on interior teak.

Exterior deck or platform quality teak is another matter. It's an expensive, oily wood that will lift a hard coating unless it is specially formulated for teak. Varnish (phenolic or poly based) does not do the job well.
 
I applied the Bristol to exterior swim ladder steps and anchor pulpit inlays. Only been 1 year but so far so good. I was advised it is relatively easy to repair if damaged by sanding and reapplication. In fact, I accidentally damaged one of the boards, and just hit it with a couple more coats without sanding. Wasn't perfect, but only a trained eye would detect it where it was located... And YES, you must remove residual oil prior to application.
 
Incidentally, a good varnish will last just about forever for interior use. Once you get the building coats done you can go many years without recoating unless it's exposed to sunlight or gets scratched up. I've even used Pettit BAK-V-SPAR on the bathroom cabinets at home.
 
Teak oil is not for exterior in my opinion. Nothing wrong with Epifanes and similar varnishes on teak. The "too much oil" mantra is a myth. I had no problem keeping properly prepped and applied varnish on teak for about 8-10 years with yearly top coats.

Also, the crap about 15 coats of varnish per years is not someone speaking from experience. That's not even remotely true. Lets keep it to the facts, not rumors.
 
I've never varnished anything but a piece of furniture. I was repeating what others have told me, which I guess was an exaggeration. I wasn't trying to mislead anyone.
 
I don't have any exposed teak on my boat, but quite a bit of it inside. I have 47' trawler from Taiwan and the entire inside is teak. The floors are all solid teak and holley (not veneer). I'm in the process of stripping the previous finish because it was worn and varnishing it.

Epifanes is formulated for teak and is considered the best varnish in many circles. It is also considered the hardest to apply because of the higher solids content making it hard to get a smooth coat. I haven't tried the Petit product you mentioned.

One advantage that I have is that my floor wood is now stable, so no expansion/contraction. I have been looking at a product called ultimate sole (www.ultimatesole.com). It's a single part urethane that's been modified from basketball court finishes to a formula for teak. It's supposed to be very non skid and high gloss. It's appealing but I can't get a return phone call from the company and I've been calling for a month.

I'll be applying a coat every spring, but it will more likely be used to remove scratches, etc. My galley and salon area have lots of windows but I have light blocking screens (95% light blocked), so I don't think I'll have too much UV breakdown.

The areas that concern me most are the stairs. I've slipped on them already. I've got these clear beads from Epifanes that they recommend mixing into their varnish for the last 2 coats to make it non skid. I have to experiment with them to see if it makes the varnish look like crap.

There are a couple good things about varnish. The amber colour does help 'hide' some of the colour variations of the wood so it looks good. Varnish is varnish coloured so you can repair and recoat it will always be the same colour. Varnish is easier to remove than 2 parts like Bristol. Epifanes Clear Gloss formula hasn't changed in 97 years so it will be easy to get another can and 'repair' damaged areas if needed and get a perfect colour match.

This last comment is purely my opinion, nothing looks as good as traditional varnish. Nothing. It's simply beautiful.

I got a good (great) deal on my boat because it sat in the dealers lot for 2 years and the finish looked like crap, so the whole boat showed poorly. A bit of work restoring the varnish, repairing a bit of damaged veneer on a wall, and this boat will look like a million bucks. Even in this slow boat market, I probably won't lose anything if/when I sell.

PS. I'm by no means a refinishing expert and I am in a huge project so any information or advice everybody has, I'm all ears.
 
quote:

Originally posted by praetorian

Cetol looks like crap. Sorry, but it does.






This is obviously just opinion. Personally, I feel my teak looks best when I'm out on the water using the boat, not sitting on the hard taking care of the wood. For the purposes of actually using the boat more, Cetol is a good compromise.

I just finished recoating most of my exterior teak with Cetol light. It looks great, and getting plenty of compliments from passers-by.
 
I use a product called "Semco". I start with clean ed teak and apply 5 coats then annual recoat with one. Maintenance is a piece of cake and it always looks good. I like teak that doesn't shine.
 
praetorian,

I have to admit, I've never varnished teak and don't have any on the boat. Just Philippine mahogany, oak and fir.

Anti-slip with varnish is a challege. The clear beads sound like a good idea: good luck. The classic Chris-Craft boat solution for slippery varnished stair steps were pads of white checkered rubber. The pads were cut for each step and fastened with brass escutcheon pins. Looks very nice and works. The white rubber material is still available.

Clear beads would look better on a new boat, though. I wonder if you might be able to cut a cardboard template with a round-cornered rectangle in the middle: hold it just over the wet varnish and sprinkle the glass though it. After that cures put on the last two coats. Or use the template as a mask for brushing the beads and varnish onto the previous coat. That might give the beads a nice look. Just an idea.

I like the amber colored varnish. It's the only varnish that will make the color of vintage stains look right on a classic boat.
 
JoeBTB,
Cetol light does look nice. I referred to the original Cetol. They also have a Cetol Natural Teak that is almost clear, which is nice also. Neither the light or the natural clear have the same UV protection as the original.

I've found that if you follow the Cetol directions exactly, and use only 3 coats, it can look okay. The problem lies in how it ages and in recoating. It becomes really muddy looking and detracts from the look of your teak. The light is better, but because its so new nobody can comment on how it will look over time.

If you really just want to use your boat, then leave the teak alone. Wash it down with saltwater and do nothing else. It will look silver and be the best non skid you can find anywhere.

I like the amber varnish look and the deep gloss that only varnish can bring. I know there are lots of other products that are close, many of which are easier to apply and/or last longer and are more durable, but none look quite as good.

Many people use Cetol (I've used it myself before) and like it. Most people don't want to spend as much time and hassle maintaining their woodwork (teak or any other kind). I have lots of wood, but none exposed to the sun and weather. I put screens on all the windows that block a lot of light out, so I expect that I'll only need to recoat every 3 years, unless I want to add a coat to bring the gloss up and 'repair' any scratches. Even so, a maintainence coat isn't too much of a big deal, just clear the wood, scuff sand it and recoat. 1 day of effort.

As to having it interfere with my boating season, it doesn't. My season is over, my boat is on land and shrinkwrapped. I put heaters inside the boat to warm it up (and Mother Nature has helped with some warmer temps). This is actually extending my season (in a perverted way)!

Cetol light with the gloss overcoat actually looks pretty good, the problem is that it's VERY slippery.

Yzer,
Anti slip with varnish is a real challenge, for sure. The clear silica beads do work, the trick is to apply it correctly and only in the areas needed. I will use it on my steps. The process I've found to work (in testing), is to do the first 3 coats normally, then tape the section you want nonskid, apply a coat and sprinkle the silica beads using a salt shaker. Leave it for a few hours then overcoat gently. Do that a second time if necessary (I'm not sure if a second coat will be required, will see when I do it).

If my boat were new, I might do things differently. I've tried different finishes, but keep coming back to spar varnish because it works for me and looks fantastic on my boat.

I tried using tung oil and then laquer over it, which was a method that some builders used in the 80's. It's messy and the cloths that you use become extremely flammable. I had the bucket with used rags spontaneously combust. Lucky I was there. I scrapped that plan right then.

We've all seen those wooden boats that just shine with a spectacular gloss. Most of us admire them, and at the same time are glad that we don't have to maintain them. I'm hoping to get lucky and have the best of both worlds, the spectacular gloss of varnish throughout the interior of the boat without the hassle of maintainence.

The general rule around here is that a coat of varnish is destroyed by the sun in 3 months. I've seen people come up with the strangest solutions to keep using varnish without the hassle. One Hatteras next to me has wooden rails. The owner has snap on covers for them to reduce exposure. I'm not sure I would go that route. I'd probably go with something else in that case (maybe even Bristol Finish).

Practical sailor did a review of different urethane varnishes. The two best were Honey Teak and 5 Year Clear. Both are available only from the manufacturer as far as I can tell. Honey Teak is made by one of the original people invovled with Bristol Finish, so I expect they're close to each other.

Try doing a search on Bristol Finish or other marine wood treatments. The wooden boat guys and professional restorers use Spar Varnish mainly, and the Epifanes products are most often reported as being the best, and the biggest pain to apply. According to Epifanes you thin the first coat 25%, second 5%, third and after you use unthinned. I thin by 5% for every coat after the first, just to make it easier to apply.
 
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