hudson river crash
- Thread starter getakey
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Just saw a picture of the barge they hit. It is "low profile" barge, no equipment on it, no cranes and probably very hard to see at night. Still no excuse to cruising fast but it does explain a bit. This is the one that was on the south side of the bridge VERY close to the marina they were heading to. I hope the link below works.
http://nyack.patch.com/groups/polic...hting-before-accident?a_dgi=aolshare_facebook
http://nyack.patch.com/groups/polic...hting-before-accident?a_dgi=aolshare_facebook
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Wait a minute. Why is anyone believing ANYTHING they read?
"Last Friday, a speedboat slammed into a Tappan Zee Bridge construction barge, killing two and injuring four others. Credit: Krista Madsen / Patch"
Is this a SPEED BOAT? NO! It's a freaking bow rider! Let's all hype this up as much as we can. This is really beginning to look like a class A witch hunt.
"Last Friday, a speedboat slammed into a Tappan Zee Bridge construction barge, killing two and injuring four others. Credit: Krista Madsen / Patch"
Is this a SPEED BOAT? NO! It's a freaking bow rider! Let's all hype this up as much as we can. This is really beginning to look like a class A witch hunt.
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Yeah, just like anytime a 40 footer is mentioned in a news report, it becomes a luxury yacht 
Looking at the picture in the article linked above, if that is the barge, if it was in that location and if the boAte was heading towards the bridge it should have been very visible, light or no light, being back lit by the bridge.
But to see it, you have to pay attention, be sober and not have a bunch of useless light on board ruining your night vision.
In addition to the bridge, there is a bunch of lights on shores high make it easy to see a dark barge.
Looking at the picture in the article linked above, if that is the barge, if it was in that location and if the boAte was heading towards the bridge it should have been very visible, light or no light, being back lit by the bridge.
But to see it, you have to pay attention, be sober and not have a bunch of useless light on board ruining your night vision.
In addition to the bridge, there is a bunch of lights on shores high make it easy to see a dark barge.
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To put it more in perspective the barge is somewhere in the middle between the marina to the bridge. The really big barges are on the north west side of the bridge.
Any one crushing more than 10 miles an hour at night is asking for troubles. The river is
Known to have much debris all over.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jag9889/2179556920/
Any one crushing more than 10 miles an hour at night is asking for troubles. The river is
Known to have much debris all over.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jag9889/2179556920/
I read the news articles to be honest they don't say the small boats pilot was arrested they said he may face charges. This looks like a disaster in the making and other boaters warned the Mayor, the construction company, the USCG and the Bridge Commission. These warnings were met with the lighting was adequate. It appears the number and location of the barges changes daily.
I'm not rushing to judgement that the pilot of the 21 foot bay boat was doing anything wrong.
As someone else put it sometimes you do everything right and sh*t still happens. This maybe a true accident even though there is no longer any true accidents.
Bill
I'm not rushing to judgement that the pilot of the 21 foot bay boat was doing anything wrong.
As someone else put it sometimes you do everything right and sh*t still happens. This maybe a true accident even though there is no longer any true accidents.
Bill
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The articles I read and the local news station reported that he has already been charged with manslaughter and facing additional charges and bail has been set at $250,000. He was being guarded by the police at the hospital where he was recovering.
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If lights reflect on water from behind an object, even an unlit buoy, will be clearly visible as long as you protect your night vision.
I ve said it before but dimming those plotters is absolutely critical, probably not an issue on such a small boat obviously. Second, turn off those useless lights... The number of center console covers with red or blue LEDs is reaching epidemic level down here and while they may be cool at the restaurant dock, once underway, even the red ones lightning up the forward part of the boat will blind the operator.
A simple trick I use at night whenever possible is to ride the light. Often when heading toward shore you will have a ray of light on the water highlighting any object or obstruction. Follow it like a beacon even if temporarily off course assuming you re not in a channel, it helps a lot.
As I said I spend a lot of time on the water at night, whether sailing or running a tender or a bigger boat and it can be very safe
I ve said it before but dimming those plotters is absolutely critical, probably not an issue on such a small boat obviously. Second, turn off those useless lights... The number of center console covers with red or blue LEDs is reaching epidemic level down here and while they may be cool at the restaurant dock, once underway, even the red ones lightning up the forward part of the boat will blind the operator.
A simple trick I use at night whenever possible is to ride the light. Often when heading toward shore you will have a ray of light on the water highlighting any object or obstruction. Follow it like a beacon even if temporarily off course assuming you re not in a channel, it helps a lot.
As I said I spend a lot of time on the water at night, whether sailing or running a tender or a bigger boat and it can be very safe
I spend most of my cruising time at night. I run at hull speed or below and I have my wife doing the look out in addition to myself. I also have a FLIR unit and it works wonders. In addition radar is always on as I cruise. So while I may get distracted by all my instruments my wife scans the horizon. It works very well for us and we have been able to detect boats without lights fishing and kayaks that have no lighting and make corrections. As far as any ship running AIS we have that covered as well. I hope with the Class E AIS trials going on that will bring more boaters with Smart phones into the AIS fold.
I actually think if your running slow at night and in familiar waters there is less danger than during the day when all the drunks, weekend warriors and jet ski's are out. The exceptions are holiday weekends I generally stay put.
Bill
I actually think if your running slow at night and in familiar waters there is less danger than during the day when all the drunks, weekend warriors and jet ski's are out. The exceptions are holiday weekends I generally stay put.
Bill
You can't minimize the tragic deaths, injuries and lives forever changed. It is hearbreaking to say the least. But it is also business as usual in the American way, everyone is lawyered up and pushing the blame to the USCG, bridge builders, Governor...whoever. Can anyone take responsibility for their own actions,choices, results anymore??
Was the barge hard to see? Yes.
Could the reflection/shadows, lights or whatever from the TZ bridge make it harder to see? Yes
Could it have been better lite? Yes
BUT..there is still a personal responsibility that I just don't feel was adequately met. Reports say the operater was "probably" drunk. The restaurant said the party of six ordered only 4 drinks between them. Were they somewhere else beforehand? The survivors said they did drink but very little. Well I rarely drink, and "very little" may be as little as a beer or two while not legally drunk or falling down stupid could impair me to the point I would NEVER move my boat off the dock especially at night.
Forget about alcohol. They are locals!! The news and papers are plastered with bridge development daily!! The barges are there, have been there and will be there for a long time. If you are unfamiliar with night boating or even if you are WHY would you be going any faster than no wake speed in that dangerous area.
The survivors stated none of them saw the barges before they hit and "they were all on watch" and even after the accident they still didn't know what they hit. That just defies logic to me. We all know the barges are there. I have been on the river on moonless nights, pitch black when I have been able to see things in the water that I did NOT know were there, like an idiot one night anchored with no lights on near the channel. Saw him a good 100 feet in front of me because we were going very slow and our eyes were never off the water. Things like that have happened many times and one boat sitting in the water is a heck of a lot smaller than a barge & no TV station or newspaper warned me that the boat was going to be there!
It just appears that maybe these were VERY inexperienced boaters with not even local knowledge let alone Rules of the Road training like so many we see out there every weekend who just decided one day boating looks like fun, I'm gonna buy one......and don't have a clue.
I understand by the damage to the boat they were likely not at WOT. But they were certainly going fast enough to sustain a huge hole in the bow, have people tossed overboard, have people knocked unconcious, have people killed and have people sustain serious injuries. THAT in my opinion is too fast!
Was the barge hard to see? Yes.
Could the reflection/shadows, lights or whatever from the TZ bridge make it harder to see? Yes
Could it have been better lite? Yes
BUT..there is still a personal responsibility that I just don't feel was adequately met. Reports say the operater was "probably" drunk. The restaurant said the party of six ordered only 4 drinks between them. Were they somewhere else beforehand? The survivors said they did drink but very little. Well I rarely drink, and "very little" may be as little as a beer or two while not legally drunk or falling down stupid could impair me to the point I would NEVER move my boat off the dock especially at night.
Forget about alcohol. They are locals!! The news and papers are plastered with bridge development daily!! The barges are there, have been there and will be there for a long time. If you are unfamiliar with night boating or even if you are WHY would you be going any faster than no wake speed in that dangerous area.
The survivors stated none of them saw the barges before they hit and "they were all on watch" and even after the accident they still didn't know what they hit. That just defies logic to me. We all know the barges are there. I have been on the river on moonless nights, pitch black when I have been able to see things in the water that I did NOT know were there, like an idiot one night anchored with no lights on near the channel. Saw him a good 100 feet in front of me because we were going very slow and our eyes were never off the water. Things like that have happened many times and one boat sitting in the water is a heck of a lot smaller than a barge & no TV station or newspaper warned me that the boat was going to be there!
It just appears that maybe these were VERY inexperienced boaters with not even local knowledge let alone Rules of the Road training like so many we see out there every weekend who just decided one day boating looks like fun, I'm gonna buy one......and don't have a clue.
I understand by the damage to the boat they were likely not at WOT. But they were certainly going fast enough to sustain a huge hole in the bow, have people tossed overboard, have people knocked unconcious, have people killed and have people sustain serious injuries. THAT in my opinion is too fast!
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Just crossed the bridge by car. I think it is just a matter of time until the next accident. There is one more "low profile" barge on the south side that are hard to see at day or night. Those barges need to be moved under the bridge or at list very close to the beidge!
As someone who has spent a lifetime doing this type of work, there are many factors that go into the placement of barges while performing bridge work. Everyone has an opinion and everyone has regulations that must be met. It is often times very hard to find a location that falls within everyone's criteria. Especially on a structure the size of the Tappan Zee which will require that these barges are relocated numerous times.
Some of the agencies that have control over this project include;
* US Coast Guard and their concerns over keeping the marine traveling public safe as well as any impact on the shipping channels.
* USDOT which funds a large portion of the project, and therefore brings along all of their regulations.
* NY State Thruway Authority who is the Owner of the structure.
* US Homeland Security which has authority under the Patriot Act.
* DEHEC which has control under the environmental impact study. They can seriously impact the placement by dictating how close the barges are placed due to the results of environmental monitoring. This is a constantly changing condition based upon wind directions and where "dirty air" will fall during the preparation of connection points.
Add to this the contractors own requirements as far as crane placement for lifting structural pieces into place, and compressor placement for the use of air-driven tools. And you can begin to see that the barges are not just placed on the assumption of a "practical spot".
Understanding that public safety is the number one priority; (Until a worker becomes injured and then OSHA will determine that worker safety is the number one priority.); doing a project of this size and scope is nowhere near as simple as it may appear to the traveling motorist.
The important thing is that the barges are properly lit at all times and that all movement is well spelled out within the appropriate notice to mariners.
In the know, remember I said "read", don't write. That way, when it comes time for you to write, you won't be taken as a fool for what you post.
For those who don't think boater education and licensing will make people safer on the water, how can anyone claim to have "common sense" and not think this will help? It won't solve all the problems, but it can't hurt and having people at least exposed to the laws, rules of the road, and safe boating procedures, has to make it safer for all of us on the water. Somehow I think I've stumbled into the kiddie pool here when it comes to common sense.
I suspect those folks who are against education and testing are afraid that they, themselves might not pass the test.
That statement alone is justification for mandatory boating education, if you or others believe that. There are so many things wrong with that statement that I don't know where to begin.
I'll just start with this - If you get thrown from your car in an accident you are far less likely to drown than if you are thrown from a boat.