Maintenance Cost Diesel vs Gas

quote:
Originally posted by CurrentSea

Having had the exact same boat gas vs diesel, I think I am in best position to make the call though.

I concur that the costs of basic maintenance are higher.
Repairs, well if you do yourself, no big deal, but diesel mechanics do charge more.

But then there is the fuel economy.
My gas boat at cruise was burning about 30 gph.
Diesel is 23.
I did almost 60 hours this year.
That is 7 x 60 = 420 * $4.50 = $1890 savings in fuel.
That more than covers my extra maintenance cost for the year and probably puts $1k in my pocket which adds up to cover those costly repairs!

So on the same boat, diesel is cheaper to operate and maintain if you take repairs out of the picture.

Now, which boat will have more repairs as the hours go up?
Diesels seem pretty bullet proof, but I bet when you get into the 500 hour range the gasser is gonna need some big repairs.
Again, if able to do your own work, then this is not in picture, I just don't have that kind of time.

I think the analogy is flawed. Your comparing operating costs of a 40' boat to a 50' boat.

Now if we throw in the cost to buy diesel vs gas boats, then diesel is more, but they hold their value better, so even that can be a wash!

Click to expand...

Ok and as usual you use math that amazes me. $1800 savings on fuel (awesome) but what about the intercooler, BS that cost you 6k, what about the maintenance cost for pods, oil changes etc.
This thread was about being real and the real costs on diesel vs gas, lets stick to that and if we do, your boat is perfectly the example I am speaking about.

Resale value is another "myth" what you paid is another example of that.

Hank, I agree with your post.

Yes, this is a Volvo comparison,have nothing else I own to compare with
 
In my own hull design, the six cylinder Yanmar turbodiesels are more than twice as efficient as the 454's they replaced

My most fuel efficient cruise with the 454's was 13-15 kts

With the Yanmars it's 19-22 kts.

We can make a run to Key West in one 8 hour day with zero fuel stops.

Couldn't do THAT with the 454's

The Yanmars have more zincs, but the same number of fuel and oil filters

they require more oil to change, but the oil change interval is TWICE that of the Crusader 454's

Other than valve adjustments and timing belt replacements, I do all of my own maintenance.

They start ever time, including the genny and there is zero worry with CO or explosion, as we are often on the hook.

Zero electronic components that could stop us on a trip with failures or corroded connections except for the starter solenoid and fuel shut off solenoid.

Provided there is no MAJOR component failure, seems to me that I am ahead, in ALL respects.

RWS
 
I don't disagree with cost difference, but one thing is for certain, your not pushing the 45 around with gasers.
 
The thread was not about pods or their maintenance over shafts.
It was about diesel vs gas maintenance.
And I am saying the extra diesel maintenance cost is offset with he fuel savings.
 
quote:
Originally posted by CurrentSea

The thread was not about pods or their maintenance over shafts.
It was about diesel vs gas maintenance.
And I am saying the extra diesel maintenance cost is offset with he fuel savings.

Click to expand...


Not unless you put 100's or 1000's of hours on the engines every year.
 
Hogan he did the math in an earlier post.

"But then there is the fuel economy.
My gas boat at cruise was burning about 30 gph.
Diesel is 23.
I did almost 60 hours this year.
That is 7 x 60 = 420 * $4.50 = $1890 savings in fuel.
That more than covers my extra maintenance cost for the year and probably puts $1k in my pocket which adds up to cover those costly repairs!"

These numbers seem very realistic to me and the best part is this is comparing the same boat with both gas and diesel.

I too do all my own work and frankly while the cost of oil is high due to the quantity I find the boat to be very reasonable to maintain.

I think it must be time to move up, it seems no one is happy until they get a boat that costs too much to maintain and then they downsize to a more reasonable boat:)
 
quote:
Originally posted by Audrey II

Hogan he did the math in an earlier post.

"But then there is the fuel economy.
My gas boat at cruise was burning about 30 gph.
Diesel is 23.
I did almost 60 hours this year.
That is 7 x 60 = 420 * $4.50 = $1890 savings in fuel.
That more than covers my extra maintenance cost for the year and probably puts $1k in my pocket which adds up to cover those costly repairs!"

Click to expand...


Those figures are only accurate if diesel is $4.50 as well. The $1890 in savings could be less. It could be more.
 
I'm thinking a small boat with small diesels or a single mechanical diesel might be the best combination if you don't have to get anywhere fast?
Bill
 
In general smaller diesels use smaller less expensive filters, less oil etc. However if you get a small diesel with hard to get or expensive parts all bets are off.

You can buy a lot of gas engine filters and do 4 oil changes for the parts cost of one 400 HP diesel oil change.

OTOH I have had diesels from 22 HP to 450 HP and far prefer them to gas.
 
quote:
Originally posted by pdecat

In general smaller diesels use smaller less expensive filters, less oil etc. However if you get a small diesel with hard to get or expensive parts all bets are off.

You can buy a lot of gas engine filters and do 4 oil changes for the parts cost of one 400 HP diesel oil change.

OTOH I have had diesels from 22 HP to 450 HP and far prefer them to gas.

Click to expand...
I'm talking about 45-62hp diesels. Replacements are even fairly inexpensive compared to newer gas engines.
But were are talking about diesels in full displacement trawlers not fast trawlers.
Bill
 
quote:
Originally posted by KiDa

The needs vary by person and location. IIRC, Austin Paul has Hogan's boat with gassers. No diesel on his lake. A couple of years ago I looked at a 45 aft cabin. It had 454's with a small diesel gennie. It was owned by an older couple who hull speed' to the anchorage place they had chosen for the weekend....maybe a couple to three hours. After they dropped the hook they had no CO worries with a diesel gennie. for them it was the best of both worlds. I seriously considered it but the layout was too choppy.

Click to expand...
Yes, my Portofino is very similar to Hogan's, and I run gassers, but we do have diesel on Lake Travis at just about every fuel dock. I too, would prefer having a diesel gennie.

Given my needs these days, which involves low hour use just to slowly cruise to our favorite nearby anchorages, the gassers are probably the better choice for me. However, the boat actually started its life on the Pacific. Whew, that must have killed them on fuel.

Paul
 
Regarding major service on diesels - here is another data point for what it is worth.

It was not possible for me to troubleshoot or do some of the work that involves electronics on my Yamaha F150's , or on our friends MPI gas or electronic diesels. It is because I do not have the tools , training or manuals (that's zero for three) that are required for those systems.
But fortunately I can do just about every task on my 6 Cylinder 4 stroke Diesels with my current tools and background.

About 5 years ago my 1,000 hour major service on the mains involved these tasks and a few here I added myself:
- Head re-torque
- Fuel injection timing
- Valve adjust
- Measure turbo play
- Clean service aftercoolers
- Clean service heat x-changer
- Inspect risers

Total cost less than $200.
These did not include the yearly service for fluids and filters which are separately scheduled.
A year later I did all 12 injectors remove and regrind/set pressure for less than $700.

FWIW - Our boat is about 36,000 lbs with a 47' hull (53' overall) and we travel about 1,000 miles a year mostly at planning speeds.

Hope this helps
 
Fuel costs gas vs Diesel - just another data point for comparison.

Of course whether the boat is gas or diesel each boat could just slow down to hull speed (square root of waterline length X 1.34) and enjoy at least twice the mileage.
Or they could slow down to the best speed for mileage (around the square root of the waterline length) and get at least 4 X their planning speed mileage assuming no tides and neutral seas.
So each type can gain a 200% or a 400% plus gain in fuel use just by changing the speed at which they operate.

With that said we travel mostly at planning speeds on a 47' boat that has diesels and that weighs over 36,000 pounds.
For many years now we make a couple of trips each year with a paper cruising club of more than 60 boats.
On any given trip it is not unusual to have 35+ boats complete most or all of the same trip route at the same time.
The past 3 years we have travelled extensively along side varied boats in sizes and types of power and certainly their potential speeds varied greatly as well.

On one typical 'loop' two years ago we travelled from Northport to Cedar Island then Block , then Mystic and home with an anchor stop along the way.
This trip was about 240 miles for each of us given that we are not on the exact same track nor do we travel at the same speeds.
Since we were all at planning speeds for this trip hull speed economy did not come into play.

There is not a large enough gas boat to do a direct comparison to ours but there was one along that is pretty large for a gas powered boat. A 41 Silverton side deck which had 8.1's and weighed near 30,000 lbs was travelling on the loop at speeds just a bit less than us. Our fuel use was about 260 gallons at a diesel price of $4 and his use was about 600 gallons at a gas price of about $4.30. There are times that our range allows us to seek out a larger difference in price between gas and diesel by passing by a higher priced location but that is not in this example.

So the cost for this trip between the two boats was a difference of 340 gallons and roughly $1,540.
They are not the same boats just with different power but I have no closer boats to compare.

The 2 other boats that we cruise with extensively are a 37 Sea Ray and a 31 Sea Ray dancer both with gas.
Because we have done so many trips with these two boats over the years we can just about predict fuel use to many of the stops before we leave. At planing speeds both of them burn a good deal more fuel per mile than our boat - and very predictable.
The 31 with its lower tankage will just make the Block Island leg without refueling and both will use over 40% more fuel than we burn.

Once again I am not saying diesel is correct for all applications or even preferred as I have purposely avoided a diesel option (with great prejudice) on a boat just a couple of years ago - I am saying that you need to look at your needs and wants and pick the power that best matches those goals on the specific boat that you want to own and operate.

Hope this helps
 
"Doesn't diesel cost more than gas on the water like on land.
Al"

Hello Al - in our area and also on the Ct. coast diesel is cheaper vs gas as the taxes are much less. Diesel on the water in a couple of spots in Ct was barely over $3.30 for reasonable volumes in Sept. Surprisingly I had also gotten very used to diesel being cheaper on land with my diesel pickup over the years as the 'new' higher land diesel price is a rather new phenomena over the past 5 years or maybe more. In any case diesel cost less to refine so the price is made up by adding on fees and taxes along the way.

Hope this helps
 
Bill: At that level the cost would be as cheap as any old gasser. Simple and easy.

Of course if you pay to have the knuten valve maladjusted and the frammis replaced it gets more expensive.
 
smitty, where in Northport do you keep your boat? I have a very good friend at Wyncote
 
diesel has advantages in the boat range where there is overlap on gas vs. diesel. below the overlap, diesel is not an option for weight & cost, above the overlap gas is not an option for max HP.

in the overlap, diesel has approx. 30% more BTU's per gallon over gas, thus packs more power gallon for gallon.

In SE Florida where trucked fuel delivery is an option, diesel fuel is generally cheaper by the gallon than gas. diesel is always at least a dollar a gallon less than marina/gas dock pricing, very often more than a buck cheaper.

if the boat is used in frequently and the gas engine has sufficient HP to run the boat at the desired speed, gas can be a good option. in a commercial setting with high fuel consumption, the diesel will be less costly to run in the big picture.
 
BTW - my analysis of my boat gas vs diesel is flawed by the pods. I compared inboard to pod.
My boat inboard diesel probably will burn about 26 gph, so that will reduce the savings.
Also will cruise slower, more at the gas speed.
The pod boat cruises faster and burns less.

So with that said, the gas and diesel are very close as maintenance costs are offset by fuel costs with little to no above board savings.
 
Hello Hogan -

We are often on a mooring off the town dock where our daughter is the dockmaster. We cruise with a bunch of boats many of which are at various yacht clubs around here mostly Brittania , Huntington YC , Knutson's and East shore but none at Wyncote. They may know the boat name from cruising around as we have had the same name on the last 3 boats all have been Bayliner Pilothouse's that look the same to most passers by. After being on this site again a few years I am sure we have run into your boat as well as a few others here when we were up the Hudson at Haverstraw or Minisceonga or maybe in that anchoring bay a bit south. We have been on the Hudson a lot especially the past 5-6 years between Liberty Landing and Catskill marinas.
I found out recently that I missed Anchor Management while transiting between Block Island and Mystic in the fog 2 years back as he was calling us on the radio and we were to focused/stupid to be on scanning stations. We were concentrating on two stations as the lead boat of 5 and they heard the calls but did not call ahead to us to let us know they were hailing us since it was not an 'emergency'.

Hope to see you out there -
Ron & Karen
"NO WORRIES"
 
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