RESOLVED - Crusader 454- Stalling barely idling

Run a portable tank straight off the fuel pump, bypassing the fuel filter. You might have to get a double ended barb fitting to add/lenghten the fuel line to reach to gas can. the pump should self prime, but it may a few rotations to get fuel to the carb. Squirting gas or spraying starting fluid into the carb will pull the fuel up to the carb faster.

I hope you didn't crud up the second carb. Those fine particles can get into everything.
 
Rochester Quadrajets. Rebuilt before last season.

Also I didn't mention that this started at the end of last season. One day I went to start the boat and couldn't start the STBD engine. The next day if ran fine but I never had it much more than idle as I was getting ready to pull the boat. I'll try to figure out a way to rig up a tank. All of my fuel hoses have threaded fittings on them
 
quote:
Originally posted by gardnersf

Rochester Quadrajets. Rebuilt before last season.

Also I didn't mention that this started at the end of last season. One day I went to start the boat and couldn't start the STBD engine. The next day if ran fine but I never had it much more than idle as I was getting ready to pull the boat. I'll try to figure out a way to rig up a tank. All of my fuel hoses have threaded fittings on them

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Perhaps just pick up or 2 of these hose barb adapters in the appropriate size ( any plumbing supply store): http://www.fastenal.com/web/product...Search&rfqXref=&rfqKeyword=&rfqId=&rfqLineId=
 
Did you by chance fiddle with the linkage between the primary and secondaries? They can be very sensitive to change.

A little FYI on carbs.

Q-jets have a reputation for leaking from the 'well' plugs. This causes a rich condition. It may run rich or not run at all. To fix a possible leak it's been pretty standard to apply JB weld to the soldered up tubes to make sure the solder isn't leaking. You can do this by turning the carb upside down and JB weld the silvery solder at the end of the 'well' tubes.

Another thing since we're talking about carbs now, The float valve can get sticky. They can stick open or closed. Stuck open will have gas dripping from the primary side. If left long enuff without catching it, it's possible to fill the cylinders and intake manifold with gas.

A way to temporarily fix sticking float valves is to whack the fuel inlet with a plastic or wooden screw driver handle to dislodge it. I always say the fuel inlet simply because it's one of the thickest parts of the casting.
 
Sandy,

Looks like that will work.

Charlie - I had the carbs rebuilt before last year and hadn't messed with them. I will check the bottom of them when I pull them off again. I also switch the carb from my port engine which is running fine to Stbd and had the same behavior after a few seconds. I am going to check the AS valve as well (Hard to get to) Combined with the crud in the carb filter it may be making it even worse.
 
If the fuel filter in the carb gets stopped up it will push crud by the filter and into the carb itself the pump is stronger than the small spring behind the filter. With the flame arrester off yes it is normal to hear the air , I hate to say it but you may end up rebuilding both carbs again if they have crap out of the tank in them. Do you have the spin on water separator filters on them? If so remove the one and dump it into a clean container . I realize you said the filters in the carb but just making sure. If you can get fresh fuel to it and it still runs like crap I would be looking at the carbs because you stated it ran ok for a short time then started to act up after you switched them (just enough time to fill the passages with crap out of the tank)The passages are very small. You will need to have the tank cleaned and flush the rest of the system lines etc. if you find something in the fuel. The timing should not have a big effect until you try to rev it up. (If you haven't moved the dist.)There are lots of engines that run a fixed timing its cheaper to build them that way and less moving parts. If you shot carb cleaner into the throat and it picked up its LEAN which means something is stopped up and not letting enough fuel thur and I'll bet you will find the carb (s) stopped up. Jamie
 
...and another thing, Marina gas often sits for a long time and should be suspect. See what kind of tank material they're made of. Fiberglass may be affected by alcohol and aluminum oxidation can be white.
 
Scott have you tried another gas source yet? If so what are the results? I'm concerned that the fuel particles might have gotten past the QJets filters and into the internals. If so you might now be facing 2 problems bad fuel in the one tank and bad carb(s).
Bill
 
I pumped 20 gallons of gas out of the tank. I now have a rig to connect to a portable tank. I am trying to get a test run in this week on the portable tank but have to finish some other work as well. I'm not really sure hwo much gas I have remaining in the tank. i suspect that I had more than I thought as the fuel gauge is still reading at or above a 1/4 I can't really trust the gauge though.

I tried to pull the anti-siphon valve. I just don't have good access to the top of the tank I was able to get the fuel line off but the shutoff valae and anti-siphon valve wouldn't budge with the limited wrench room I had. I didn't want to break anything. I did put carb cleaner right at the anti-siphon valve and soaked it good. Hopefully that will free up any deposits that may be there.

Time has been really short to work on this but I appreciate the continued feedback. I will report back on any progress.
 
Progress!

I finally got some time to work on this.

First off, the port engine would not run with the STBD Carb. Would not start. I put the port Carb back on (I had only run it in the Stbd Engine for 30 seconds to a minute) Port ran fine.

Then I finished my Exhaust elbows and riser job

I took the stbd Carb back off the boat, Sprayed Carb Cleaner in any port I could reach and used some pressurized air and carb cleaner to blow out some of the passages. I know this is not a proper carb cleaningrebuild, but I wanted to see if I could at least get it to run.

I hooked the Stbd engine to a new outboard tank with fresh gas and some StarTron added. It took a while, but I was able to get the engine started. Once it started, it idled and revved normal. It's still on the hard so I can't do much more with it, but it's good to hear it run again. I did hear the "hissing" sound form the carb, but just as I was throttling up and it quickly stopped as the fuel caught up.

So now, I hve two working engines and still have some bad gas in the tank.

I have been experimenting with the bad gas. I added extra stabilizerfuel treatment to the 20 gallons I pulled. I mixed it 50/50 in my tractor and weed whacker and they ran better than ever. I've also taken a sample in a jar and added a couple of different treatments to see how it evolves. With Sea Foam only, the gas began to clear up, the white "snot" that was in the gas started to disappear. (There wasn't a lot to begin with.

I added some StarTron today to see what will happen.

So now, I have to figure out what to do with the gas in the tank. I really don't know how much I have as I don't really trust the fuel gauge to be all that accurate. I'm guessing I still have 20-30 gallons in a 125 gallon tank.
 
I just wanted to close the loop on this as several people helped me.

The problem was definitely fuel. Once the boat hit the water, I filled the tanks up with fresh gas. STBD took only 60 gallons to fill which meant I had 60 gallons of bad gas mixed with 60 gallons of good. I added about 12 OZ of StarTron to the tank as well on top of the 16 oz I had added earlier

On the first test run, the carb filter clogged after 5 minutes of running at 3000 RPM. I motored back at 1500 RPM and cleaned the filters.

I figured I was set into a mode of lots of filter changed and would try to burn off the gas as quickly as possible.

After thinking about it, I decided to speed up the process. I built a cleaning rig for about $200. The rig consists of a fuel water separator with bowl, an marine fuel pump, A 2 micron screen filter, switch, fuse, alligator clamps and about 25 feet of fuel hose and assorted connectors. I had to add a primer bulb to get fuel to the suction of the fuel pump.

I connected the suction of the rig at the outlet of my existing spin on water separator and set the discharge to the fuel tank fill.

I ran the pump for about 4 hours. I estimate that moved about 120 gal of fuel through the rig. It was a very interesting result.

First, the fuel was slightly cloudy and had a few flakes. It was also a dark amber color, sort of like dark olive oil.

After 4 hours, it was very clear and looked pretty much like light vegetable oil. a mild yellowish color.

I ran the boat after reconnecting everything, changing the on board spin on filter and carb filter (I flushed the fuel line that wasn't used as well)and went for a ride.

the boat ran much better. STBD ran to about 3800 RPM, which is a little off peak, and port was about 4200 which is fine. I ran at 3400 RPM for about 30 minutes before it started to bog. I moored up, checked the carb filter and I ha da little bit of gunk plus a little piece of Teflon tape that must have been on one of the fittings (I used thread sealant but PO had Teflon tape.

Ran the boat for another 30 minutes without any incident at 3500 RPM and hit 3850 or so peak.

Today I took the boat out again. Ran it for a solid hour at 3000-3400 RPM with no issues.

.

The fuel was very cloudy but not discolored. I ran the rig for about an hour on a 5 gallon jug. After running it the fuel was much cleaner but not near as nice as the fuel on the boat.

Now the fuel on the boat was mixed 50/50 with valve Tec gas and ha da ton of StarTron in it.

I'm going to add some StarTron and try again. Basically, I think the StarTron really works wonders. From what I have read, it bonds the impurities allowing them to get filtered out.

So now I have a functional boat again. I will run this tank down low and refill with fresh again. I also plan on running the cleaning rig on the other tank just for good measure.
On a side note, I applied my rig to the fuel I had pulled from the boat before. On that fuel, the only additive was some Lucas Fuel treatment
 
That's great you apparently have it running pretty much OK again . Since your profile indicates you are in RI where I believe only E10 is available, you may well have had phase-separation in the stbd engine's tank. Even with your good fuel-polishing efforts and additives and some new gas, the engine may have been running on reduced octane gas which runs the risk of detonation damage at hgher RPM running unless you retard the timing a few degrees from normal until all the iffy fuel is out of there one way or another. Rather risky trying to fix bad gasohol fuel and running on that at cruise speed . With all the additives and some water and otherwise degraded/lower-energy-content fuel apparently keeping WOT RPMs reduced on the stbd engine, you might check the condition of the plugs again to see if it looks like there might be a risky lean running condition.

If there was water in that tank you will want to see if you can find out how it got in there. Cracked or missing fill cap O-ring, water sitting in the tank top and getting in through a leaky sender gasket, low tank vent or not protected from wave action (no upward hose loop , ...?
 
Sounds like a neat set-up you made for polishing the fuel. Take some pix for those interested in making one.

Teflon tape works fine the first time it's used (correctly) on fuel fittings. The trouble happens if the fittings are ever removed. Best not to ever use it.
 
A guy I worked with took me fishing. Bat wouldn't keep running. We kept changing filters and it'd run till they clogged again. Then we found the crud downstream of the filters also. As if it was "growing" in the gasoline. Looked like a grayish flour. We hear of growths in Diesel, but it sure seemed like something was growing in the Gas.
 
Good thing you went along John. Doesn't sound like your friend does any maintenance.
 
Now that you fixed it, would you consider selling me your filtering set-up? I need to do the same thing you just did.
You can contact me at waybomb at gmail dot com
 
Fred,

I'm going to keep it but can send you a parts list. It's handy for transferring fuel as well. The new EPA gas cans are a pain and this works better :0

I'll post pictures when i get a chance. i just got back from vacation. (No not on the boat unfortunately)
 
Please do post pictures, I would like to see the setup as well. I am sure there are a few of us that would like to see those.
 
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