we can see Ricks design raises the bottom almost to the water line for less drag and even though it has hard chines IMO it is a trawler and of a designe common to working vessels. Rick's picture of willie shows a canoe stern for reducing following seas effect. Probably based on a sail hull it looks to have rounded chines. Both boats are designed for reduced drag to more easily slip through the water at displacement speeds. Compare that to a Grand banks style hull that has an almost straight run aft of the hull bottom to a square transom, little dead rise and hard chines. That is just a heavy displacement maybe semi planing hull but usually not built with enough power to plane so they are named trawlers. The two shown above IMO are trawlers the GB and its copycats are not.
Trawlers vs. Cruisers
- Thread starter AL8156
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Grady Wahoo:
Thanks for the link to the Chuck Husick article, Grady. An oldie, but a goodie! He also explained very well how the designer of my Commander 30 hull got the boat to run more economically (NMpG)at 28 knots than at 20 knots.
Old_Salt
Thanks for the link to the Chuck Husick article, Grady. An oldie, but a goodie! He also explained very well how the designer of my Commander 30 hull got the boat to run more economically (NMpG)at 28 knots than at 20 knots.
Old_Salt
Spirit of Willie is a pretty boat, but she must have been embarrassed to be underway with mismatched fenders deployed. All fenders should be brought in even before the dock lines are coiled and stowed. For Willie's sake man, she's not a sea ray!
If you ever see Emily Grace underway with dangling fenders, you can take her since I must have lost my mind!
Tom
Emily Grace
Nordhavn 46
If you ever see Emily Grace underway with dangling fenders, you can take her since I must have lost my mind!
Tom
Emily Grace
Nordhavn 46
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If you loose your mind Tom can I have your boat? *wink*
IIRC Willie was just on a short jaunt between locks on the Rideau Canal between Jone's Falls and Chaffey's Lock. So I wouldn't fault Willie for draggin' his fenders!
The first thing I learned on the Rideau was you can never have too many fenders and they can never be too big! Although I was never worried too much about my boat I was worried about damaging someone elses.
Grady Wahoo
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If KnottyBuoyz' wake wasn't interfering with the bow and stern waves of Willie (I know you just had to shoot them pics. LOL) the fenders would have been "stowed"-in the trough that a "true" displacement craft creates amidships at hull speed....
Willie is truely a beautiful boat. And guess what she's FOR SALE. I'm not the owner of this vessel but I've looked at it online to see what a factory finished Willard looks like. My Willard is the same hull design as Willie but owner finished. To see this boat and to learn more about Willard Trawlers take a look at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WillardBoatOwners/
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Lil' outta my price range! $300K Cdn for a '92! Do they really hold their value? I'm guessing but I would thing that this boat has actually apreciated in value?
I've owned several boats over the years and have honestly never lost any money. I know that is hard to beleive, but it true. When I purchased my 40 foot Willard which is a 1981 model I was concerned about it holding its value. Mine isn't for sale but I think that I may actually make a couple of dollars or at least break even when I go to sell. Much depends on your location and the demand for this type of boat. My location is in Alaska and it seems that people in this part of the world always have dreams of sailing to tropical waters. This boat can make the trip!
Bruce, you are FOS about diesels, but you right about Grand Banks (a favorite boat of mine, we rent one somewhere at least once a year). They are, increasingly I might add, planing hull boats. Not true displacement trawlers by any means and not designed for cross ocean cruising.
"Fast Trawler" is an oxymoron.
George
"Fast Trawler" is an oxymoron.
George
The new Grand Banks are actually modified-v planing hulls and can cruise at 20+ knots. A lot of the 'trawlers' are just styled/marketed as such. To me a true trawler has a full displacement hull like a Krogen, Willard, or Nordhavn.
There's nothing new about this hull design, it describes my 27 year old Hatteras sportfisher perfectly (except the part about no wake!)
All boats will deliver their best fuel economy at hull speed, it's not exactly a secret. If I run my Hatteras 60c at hull speed, (10 knots) I burn about 22 gallons per hour, plus 1 per hour for a generator. When I "push 'em up" I burn 70+ per hour to go 2-1/2 times as fast. You have a choice, it's all in the throttle controls.
My last power boat was an Ocean Alexander 50 MK1 trawler with 6-71n's, and at hull speed she burned just 9 gallons per hour, but I couldn't go much faster, there wasn't enough power. 15 knots was about it.
My hatt actually rides better than the Ocean Alexander did, there's far less rolling and pitching. (the Hatt is twice as big, to be fair)
I've had them both far out at sea in some really rough conditions, 20' plus seas and 40 knot winds.
I like having the options of going slow to increase my range, and of hauling a$$ if I want.
I also like the sound of a pair of V-12's at full song, nothing like it, so it's a battlewagon for me.
Back from walking my dog, a few more thoughts on the above... It doesn't really matter if the manufacturer wants to call it a trawler or not, the key thing is if you're in the market for one to recognize just because someone calls it a 'trawler' and the styling may look similar, there are big differences in the hull designs, range, fuel efficiency and seaworthiness. 2 boats in the same size range might be called trawlers while one has a planing hull, big engines and limited range, while another may have a full displacement hull, thousands of pounds of lead ballast in the keel, a range of thousands of miles and be built for offshore use. Depending on what you plan to do, one or the other may better suit your needs.
While semi-displacement hulls have the advantage of the ability to go faster while still being pretty efficient when going slow, some of them at least don't handle well in following seas from what I've heard as compared to a full planing hull which can power over the seas, or a full displacement hull with a canoe stern to reduce how much the hull will get pushed around by a following sea. A friend with a Grand Banks never enjoys running in a big following sea because of the way the boat handles it. I had a conversation at a bar in the Bamahas last fall with a couple who went back to sailing after being disappointed with the handling of their semi-displacement 'trawler' after a couple of years of cruising. They were saying that in conditions where a planing sportfish hull for example would happily blast through, they were surfing back and forth leaning from one side to the other. If you're primarily going to be cruising in sheltered inland waters not an issue, but something to consider if you'll be in the ocean and cruising to the islands on a regular basis. I'm sure some designs are better in this regard, but something to research before making any decisions.
As far as the engine size and whether running big diesels slow damages them, it's something often debated and I'm not sure what the answer is. On my boat, with twin 550hp Detroits, if I'm running at 7-8 knots my engines won't maintain normal temperature which isn't good. However those of us who fish offshore often spend all day at those speeds trolling for tuna, and I don't know of anyone who could pin an engine failure on that. However we also have long runs before and after those long trolling hours...
A couple things to consider though is if you plan to run slow the vast majority of the time, larger engines mean bigger maintenance bills because as the horsepower goes up so do the costs of all the components. In addition bigger engines means less space in the engine room to work on them. I also find that if you know the power is there it's really hard not to use it!
John
While semi-displacement hulls have the advantage of the ability to go faster while still being pretty efficient when going slow, some of them at least don't handle well in following seas from what I've heard as compared to a full planing hull which can power over the seas, or a full displacement hull with a canoe stern to reduce how much the hull will get pushed around by a following sea. A friend with a Grand Banks never enjoys running in a big following sea because of the way the boat handles it. I had a conversation at a bar in the Bamahas last fall with a couple who went back to sailing after being disappointed with the handling of their semi-displacement 'trawler' after a couple of years of cruising. They were saying that in conditions where a planing sportfish hull for example would happily blast through, they were surfing back and forth leaning from one side to the other. If you're primarily going to be cruising in sheltered inland waters not an issue, but something to consider if you'll be in the ocean and cruising to the islands on a regular basis. I'm sure some designs are better in this regard, but something to research before making any decisions.
As far as the engine size and whether running big diesels slow damages them, it's something often debated and I'm not sure what the answer is. On my boat, with twin 550hp Detroits, if I'm running at 7-8 knots my engines won't maintain normal temperature which isn't good. However those of us who fish offshore often spend all day at those speeds trolling for tuna, and I don't know of anyone who could pin an engine failure on that. However we also have long runs before and after those long trolling hours...
A couple things to consider though is if you plan to run slow the vast majority of the time, larger engines mean bigger maintenance bills because as the horsepower goes up so do the costs of all the components. In addition bigger engines means less space in the engine room to work on them. I also find that if you know the power is there it's really hard not to use it!
John
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This is the Camano 31. Same hull shape as the 41. I have a photo of the stern somewhere but it has very little deadrise. From what I can tell it's a hybrid form showing some characteristics of a traditional trawler with the deep keel and a planing hull form. Extreme opposite would be a Shannon SRD with a reverse deadrise and a bow similar to a sailboat.
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Funny stuff LuckyDave! My gofast also gets amazing, better than trawler MPG in lonnnnng 5 knot no wake zones! <gg>
Here is an example of a Soft Chined, Full Displacement, Single engine True Trawler. Very soft roll as compaired to a hard chined boat which is a "Snappy" roller, but we find that the Paravanes really smoth out most of the roll to about 6 deg.
Willard 40 Foot Pilot House
Willard 40 Foot Pilot House