Vacuflush lost vacuum, hoses are tight...

D

DLL

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Vacuflush lost vacuum, it runs and runs and runs.
This happened last night and we turned it off.
This morning it worked fine.

Then around 8pm it was used again and it won't quit running. No solids in sight. All liquids.
I tried filling the bowl with water (75% or so) and flushed it, hoping any obstruction down inside might be moved.

I tightened all the hoses, tapped the vacuum unit with a rubber mallet...no change.

Any suggestions? Tomorrow I will check the voltage on the unit. Ideas?
 
check the bowl flush seal. does it hold water or all drain out??
 
if it doesn't stop, it means the leak is big and you should be able to hear it, listen carefully along connections. if you don't hear it, chances are it's the duckbills, two on the inlet and two on the outlet of the pump. probably something stuck in there. open the fittings on each side and clear them out. if they're over 4 or 5 years old, you may as well replace them.
 
Covered them both, duckbills or bowl seal. It's one or the other. Cheapest way? Start with the bowl seal by checking to insure the bowl clamp is properly torqued to 60 INCH POUNDS. NOT FOOT POUNDS!. Next, check to see if the bowl holds water. If it leaks out, it is the bowl seal, if it holds water, then it is the duck bills.
 
VacuFlush is awesome. Had it on my last boat and never had an issue with it in part to some excellent advice I got from this forum. (Peggy Hall) If you leave your boat for a few days and want to prolong the life of the duckbill valves, etc, completely fill the bowl with water and flush. Do this twice and do it consistently.

VacuFlush creates a lot of turbulence and has a tendency to tear apart everything being sucked in to the system. All the "stuff" sticks to every surface inside the system and left to it's own devices over time can harden and cause problems down the road. The idea behind the flush is to do exactly that, flush the system out creating clean internal surfaces. I sold my Tiara after 10 years. It had the original VF seals and duckbills and I never had a glitch with it once I starting to flush it out at the end of a weekend.

I miss the VacuFlush as saltwater flush has a tendency to smell and VF uses much less water so the tank can be pumped less frequently. My intention was to replace the current electric head with VacuFlush, but due to an expensive mechanical failure in July the upgrade was pushed to the spring of 08. (A broken propeller shaft take priority over a working head!) In 05 I replaced the holding tank, all hoses, clamps, y-valves, macerator pump. I'm waiting for the 17 year old Galleymaid pump to crap out, but hoping to beat it to the punch.
 
They have always worked pretty good, but due to a prolonged hospital trip for me, we did not get down to the boat for at least 75-90 days. When we got to the boat, both toilets (VF) were empty of water. I filled them and they seemed no worse for the wear, but...the front one is not creating any vacuum or enough vacuum.

We left the front toilet with lots of water in it last night, but turned off. This morning it flushed fine. We tried flushing it a second time and it just runs and runs. There IS water in the bowl during these flushs. If the seal is leaking very much, I can't see it. The water level appears to stay the same.

Duckbills? Internal parts I guess. At the motor? My motor was mounted...uh....not in line with the vacuum hose. That is, it has about 8 inches of black PVC pipe from the motor to a T
in the line. This used to work, so I guess it is the way it was designed.

I took the hose, at the downstream end of the T
connector, and twisted it. It moved a tiny bit.
All the other connections were tight.

The bowl seal...anything I can do for it? Like use silicone spray on it? To prolong its life.

Thanks for the suggestions, I will look for the paperwork on the duckbills. That is, what they look like and how to find them. I have never opened the system up before. Since we have this "T" in it, would the duckbills be at the T or up at the motor? Access to the T is simple, to get access up at the pump might be impossible due to how they "glued" the PVC pipe on. Maybe I should just remove the motor and T pipe, then take them home to mess with. I have a small workshop I can use. I would stick the two ends of the line in a bucket or something. I wonder what the chances are for it to "leak" back down the line, filling a bucket pretty fast?? Put it another way, I am not positive the holding tank is lower than the pump area. I can see the top, but the side is up against the boat.

"Start with the bowl seal by checking to insure the bowl clamp is properly torqued to 60 INCH POUNDS. NOT FOOT POUNDS!." Bowl clamp? It is enclosed on mine...I think. A "sheet of platic" is around it. Hmmm, poor description. The area under the bowl is covered up. Where is this clamp at?
 
a small vacuum leak will typically result in vacuum building up, the pump turning off, but then cycling on and off.

for the pump not to build enough vacuum to shut down, means either the leak is BIG and you'd hear it or something in the pump / duckbill prevents vacuum from building up.

a leak at the bowl seal rarely results in the pump from not shutting down. it would build vacuum, stop, then water would be sucked in, then air and it woudl cycle on and off... if water stays in, at least for a while, it' snot the bowl/valve seal. Plus you can usually hear a seal leak...

you have two heads, but do you have 1 or 2 vac pumps ? since you mention a T, i assume you have only one pump.

the duckbills are right at the pump inlet and outlet. I don't see how/why the PVC tee and pipe woudl be glued to the pump inlet... likely, like mine, you have a short run of hose clamped to the pump and the T. undo the clamps, slide the hose off and unscrew the valves. one DB will be in the valve, the next one in the pump body. same on the outlet.

if you have a 1 pump / two head set up, you also have a DB between the T and each head, inline. that's usually where tampon or big balls of TP end up... they're easy to check and clean. I have some slack in mines which allow me to raise them before opening which avoid spills. sometimes, I've gotten away with shaking the valve/hose to clear the clog (usually a guest flushing 20 sheets of TP...)
 
You can purchase a "rebuild kit" which consists of just a few parts. If your remotely handy, it's easy. The system will work like new.
 
There is also a pressure switch on the tank that can go bad. The pump will keep running because it thinks the system has not sucked down to proper level. This happened to mine. Best thing to do is call Sea-Land direct.
 
We have two separate systems. I am not sure who put this system on the Tolly, but the front head has vacuum line coming back about 10-12 feet, then it makes a slow curve forward, thru the T fitting to the vacuum resevoir and then ...I don't remember. (sorry, having a Morphine moment)...I did not check the aft connections. The two holding tanks are about 15 feet apart. The aft vacuflush works fine. It may be leaking a little water when we flush it, but it has a plastic thing around it, like to cover the parts or something. I have not taken it off, but will have to do so I think. The hose connection may be the culprit. We only get a small amount of water when we flush it. Otherwise it does not appear to leak.

The fwd head is my problem job. All of our guests use it and you KNOW what I mean there.
We give them the lecture, but who knows if they are listening.

I can reach the fwd head's vacuum tank and pump.
I figure taking it loose almost guarantees "stuff" coming out. I don't have a bucket that will fit under it. What do you put under a hose you are taking loose? I could have my 3" hose from my wet/dry vac there, let it drain in there.

Is the Vacuum generator actually the vacuum tank and pump?? That is what the owner's manual calls them. (I downloaded it).

We have a 1987 Tolly 44 CPMY, I am not sure who installed the VF system, or when. Of course, the model number may determine which parts I might need.

I will try to find the model numbers on the VF systems. As I sit here thinking about it, why couldn't the problem happen with the aft system,
lots of room there. Oh well...

Who sells the DBs? I am in the Sacramento area,
it would be nice to drive by and pick up a set, but it would probably be cheaper if Les carries them.
 
there are two types of VF. the sapce saving compact unit where you have a retangular vacuum tank with the vacuum pump on top, these are usually factory installs on new boats, i think they call them vacuum generators.

retrofits usually use the cylindrical vac tank and a separate vac pump.

before opening any part of the system, i try to rinse/flush a lot of water thru... then shut down the water supply and let the pump suck air for a little while to try to get as much water out as possible. Then i use rags, old towels, under the open valve and lift them as high as possible.

i'm still confused about the T that you have in there... i can understand having after both vac pumps to combine discharge to the holding tank.

with 2 pumps, you should have :

head --- tank----- pump----T-------holding tank
head ------tank-----pump---|

with one pump, you'd have

head-----tank---DB-----T-----pump----holding tank
head----tank----DB-----|

you can order DB from Boatfix or if you need them today at WM

as kevin said, the vac switch could be a problem, it's on the top o fhte vac tank but it's about $125 from sealand... so check the DB first.
 
quote:
Originally posted by DLL

We left the front toilet with lots of water in it last night, but turned off. This morning it flushed fine. We tried flushing it a second time and it just runs and runs. There IS water in the bowl during these flushs. If the seal is leaking very much, I can't see it. The water level appears to stay the same.

Click to expand...


It doesn't sound like the bowl seal but so you're aware for the next time you want to check the bowl seal, don't turn the system off when you leave it full of water. Since it sounds like you left the boat, it's good you did turn it off otherwise the pump may run non-stop, but with the pump off, once the vacuum pressure is gone there still may be water in the bowl even with a leak.
 
Well, I got in the bilge with the front pump and the rear pump, the front is a Whale Gulper toilet pump..NO MODEL NUMBER that I can find. The rear of the pump motor is facing the outside of the boat.

I was wrong, the forward vacuum pump is not a "T"...the end facing me is square shaped and looks like a T. When I can get down with it and see the edges I can tell it is just the way the pump was made. Sorry about that.

The flow is from the toilet to the vacuum tank,
to the vacuum pump back to the holding tank.

PascalG, you have a great idea, except the front holding tank is only 15 or 20 gallons...I think.
Not able to put too many large flushes thru it, unless I run them out the macerator... :)

The vacuum tanks are both cylindrical, but I don't see any "box" on top. One end is away from me but I don't see any gages anywhere. The end of one vacuum tank has a "box" on it.

While I was in there, I found two SS clamps I had not seen before. I turned both of them almost two rounds. For vacuum, that is way loose, unless they glued it in.

The toilet is a model 548, made in July 1991.
Does that help in knowing what equipment was used with it? Who uses Whale Gulpers?

EDIT:
I read it as Whale Gumper, but a check on Google says it should be Whale Gulper.
 
The gulpers are most likely the pumps that create the vacumm, the duck bills should be on either side of that pump, or the inlet/outle of the vacumm tank.
 
I have a model 848 in the aft head. Manuf date was 3-5-1992. The forward head has a model 512, manuf. date in 1991. They were probably installed in 1992 or 1993. 14-15 years old with no maint. I would suspect. Certainly not since 1998. They are overdue. I am looking for this kit:

The VacuFlush Maintenance Kit contains replacement parts used in routine maintenance of VacuFlush toilets. A “must” for those who cruise to remote locations. The kit includes vacuum tester, water valve, seal kit, duckbill valves (4) and an owner’s manual in a convenient storage container.

I looked in Boatfix and WM websites. I was going to go into Stockton to get parts but WM said they had never heard of that kit.

I wonder if Les has it in stock? I found the individual parts listed, some on page 0, meaning it is a new listing I think.

Anyone know of a BoatFix part number for this kit? Or WM? I prefer to give Les the business since I got the aft VF working. But it has seepage. I sprayed it with a light bleach solution, then wiped it down with paper towels.
THEN I put toilet paper on the floor and around the large line heading for the holding tank.
Both were damp after I flushed clean water down.

I tightened the band up, both hoses were less than snug, so I tightened them a 1/4 round, then I cleaned the underside of the toilet bowl pretty good.
 
As I recall the VF parts have to be obtained from a VF dealer. Even boatus used to direct us to them for parts. I think there is a web site you can hit that will lead you to local dealers. Beware of dealers that insist on traveling to your boat. I know there is one on LI NY that will ship parts.
 
quote:
Originally posted by PascalG

there are two types of VF. the sapce saving compact unit where you have a retangular vacuum tank with the vacuum pump on top, these are usually factory installs on new boats, i think they call them vacuum generators.

Click to expand...

they look like this # 10
Vacpump.jpg
 
I just got mine via boatfix help desk. I sent them the p/n from the list on the above drawing and they converted to the new p/n and I ordered.
 
I also get my VF parts from BoatFix, but they are too cheap and I get the stuff too fast - it really pisses me off
 
i just finished dissaembling cleaning and reassembling one of my vac pump, i really admire the simplicity of the system. it's all well build yet simple and easy to service. I wrongly assumed i might have an problem with the bellow because vacuum wasn't building enough so i dissassembled the whole pump and cleaned the build up while i was in there... turned out to be weak DB... i had replaced two a couple of years ago instead of all four... big mistake... but i only had two handy on that day.

anyway, reassembled the pump, reconnected the hose and it all works great as it should. no vac leaks, no cycling, for an hour now.

i'll never have a boat without VFs.
 
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