2007 Volvo Diesel D9 500HP Motors

About $400 a engine. About twice that of a gas motor. No bad considering.
Plus I am sure most parts can be found cheaper if you shop around

Walter, bobby has the volvo's in his Silverton. They have that shutdown thing where you have to call them to get code to restart. I really don't like that feature. It makes some sense but if they shut down and you need to restart before you drift into some rocks waiting for a restart code would suck! Decision to restart a motor should be a Captain's and no one else!
 
Thanks Chris,
Although more than gas, certainly not crazy.

I have read that some here us an additive to their diesel fuel, is that needed and if so what is it?
Also,
When you lay the boat up for the winter, I assume you need to treat the fuel, any input on that ?

Just curious about replacing the water pump impeller every year. When I first got my boat I read the manual cover to cover and followed the "recommended maintenance" schedule to a t. What I found was I was replacing parts that showed no signs of wear. For example, the water pump impeller, Crusader recommended changing this every 100 hours or annually. Since I only put 50 hours or so on the boat a season according to Crusader, I should still be replacing the impeller. Last impeller I replaced (this season) was 4 years old and roughly had 300 plus hours on it. The impeller is just one example, and I know the argument "its cheap insurance", but I always carry spares just in case.
The other maintenance items on my Crusaders were transmission fluid and filter changes, when following Crusaders maintenance schedule it seemed to me that the tranny fluid and filters were just as clean as the fluid I was putting in.

My question here is are diesel motors rougher on the parts like impellers and fluids and therefore require that I better follow the maintenance schedule to a t?

Thanks again for all the feedback, as you can see I am totally green when it comes to diesel motors and as mentioned I am just trying to get my arms around this.

I haven't seen a Silverton 45C that has anything other than Volvo motors, so know choice there.

Walter
 
Walter, if the boat sits, you need to add biocide, if you burn the fuel regularly, you don't. Diesel parts are more robust. You don't need to change impellers every year.

My cummins recommend that I remove and clean the aftercooler every two years, I've done it once, will do it again in the spring. Only cost there is O-rings and brake cleaner. I have 4 zincs per engine.

My tranny uses motor oil, and a lube filter.

I disagree with Dave about never going back to gas, if I ever downsize, I would happily go back to gas. In the size you're looking at, diesels are the only choice.

Starry Night has volvo's, I'm sure he can give you some first hand info.
 
Walter,
you will be very pleased with the performance of the diesels. Have you sea trialed it yet? You will notice a huge difference just by putting it in idle and I am serious about that. You will not need thrusters. The only gas powered boat I want to own again is a small bowrider like our whaler.
My engine on the trawler is not an apples to apples comparison for the high output ones you are looking at but my maint. is no more than gas engines, probably less, except for oil changes. Then again, if I blow an engine I can go to my nearest farm tractor supply store to buy a new one! ;)
Volvo makes good diesels and everyone has already warned you about parts and service technicians that can be hard to find but they are good engines.
 
There will never be agreement on Diesel additives. I dont use any. If the fuel gets cloudy I just run on low fuel for a while that circulates the fuel more rapidy then change filters. Keeping water out of the fuel that gets to the engines is key.
 
If those are electronic injection engines then fuel filtering become more critical
 
Walter, I think you'd maybe find more recommendations to use a microbiocide in the fuel, versus not. Biocides come with their own issues: all that (now) dead stuff floating in your fuel, i.e., biocides doesn't make it dissapear. Hence primary and secondary fuel filters, usually of decreasing size (in microns allowed through). Don't know of any published scientific comparisons, although there may be some out there.

Lubricity is a different story. There as a study -- Diesel Fuel Lubricity Additives Study Results, by Arien Spicer, August 2007 (Coyyright The Diesel Place and A.D. Spicer) -- that attempts to provide empiral comparisons of some specific products. You can Google that and then draw your own conclusions.

I haven't found studies relevant to additives specifically for cetane improvement, anti-gelling, or water stabilization (if that's really possible).

On the topic of impellers: I choose to follow the recommendations... partly because we seem to run our boat maybe 3x more than you do in a season... but old impellers are usually in good shape, and can become decent spares. I don't think diesels per se are harder on impellers; it's possibly just that water pumps fitted to big diesels are sometimes bigger than those on gas engines. NBot sure if that has any specific impact on impellers, given they can be larger and maybe more robust too. Once I'm in the engine room and ready to work on it, changing an impeller is maybe a 15 minute job.

-Chris
 
Nice study but do you have any manufacturers statements on the need for added lubricity?

I recently had reason to see the inside of my 900 HR injection pump. Wear could be seen in the usual spots but sl slight that IMO it would take many many thousands of hoursto become meaningful.
 
quote:
Originally posted by pdecat

Nice study but do you have any manufacturers statements on the need for added lubricity?

I recently had reason to see the inside of my 900 HR injection pump. Wear could be seen in the usual spots but sl slight that IMO it would take many many thousands of hoursto become meaningful.

Click to expand...


Nope, I have no further info, so WYSIWYG.

That said, within the study, I think the following statements are germane:

"Diesel fuel and other fluids are tested for lubricating ability using a device
called a “High Frequency Reciprocating Rig” or HFRR. The HFRR is currently
the Internationally accepted, standardized method to evaluate fluids for
lubricating ability."

"The U.S. standard for diesel fuel says a commercially available diesel fuel
should produce a wear scar of no greater than 520 microns."

"The Engine Manufacturers Association had requested a standard of a
wear scar no greater than 460 microns, typical of the pre-ULSD fuels.
Most experts agree that a 520 micron standard is adequate, but also that
the lower the wear scar the better."

And then all that compared to the reported results.

But I'm not a diesel engineer and didn't play one on television either... so I can only take all that at face value.

-Chris
 
Thanks guys and thanks Chris for taking the time to explain.
 
I havent a clue about diesels, however the 45 is a sweeeet boat. Good luck!
 
Walter- Two years ago I moved from a gas Volvo twin engine express into my 391 with the diesel 380QSB Cummins and I love the Cummins engines. The Volvo parts are more expensive and many of the parts are proprietary so it is difficult to shop for deals. The D9 engines are excellent power plants and most of the maintenance you can do yourself.
 
Volvo has a different support arrangement than just about every other mfg here in the US. They farm out the support 100% to the dealer network. How is this different you ask than anyone else? If you own a CAT and something goes wrong, CAT can actually support you directly if there is a problem with the dealer. Volvo does not do this.

In my case, I had a pair of motors from Volvo that was cracking cylinders in both engines. The two motors eventually were rebuilt 4 separate times and Volvo refused to step up for it, even though they knew that the oil cooling nozzls were defective per their own notice. The problem was bad oil cooling nozzles. The dealer said that it was not their fault that they did not replace the cooling nozzles on the first rebuild because Volvo had a cryptic engine notice (they claimed improvements in the nozzle mfg, not defects) and because it was not in their computer system (on paper). When the engines failed two more times when I owned them, Volvo said it was the dealer's problem since the dealers support the engines 100%. The dealer said it was not their problem, because it was a Volvo defect. Ultimately, neither Volvo or Coastal Marine stepped up to support me.

I'll never own another Volvo while they have a program of not supporting their engines when the dealer does not step up. They simply create an atmosphere where they point the finger at each other and the customer gets screwed. That was an $18K mistake on my part to trust Volvo.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ghost

Volvo has a different support arrangement than just about every other mfg here in the US. They farm out the support 100% to the dealer network. How is this different you ask than anyone else? If you own a CAT and something goes wrong, CAT can actually support you directly if there is a problem with the dealer. Volvo does not do this.

In my case, I had a pair of motors from Volvo that was cracking cylinders in both engines. The two motors eventually were rebuilt 4 separate times and Volvo refused to step up for it, even though they knew that the oil cooling nozzls were defective per their own notice. The problem was bad oil cooling nozzles. The dealer said that it was not their fault that they did not replace the cooling nozzles on the first rebuild because Volvo had a cryptic engine notice (they claimed improvements in the nozzle mfg, not defects) and because it was not in their computer system (on paper). When the engines failed two more times when I owned them, Volvo said it was the dealer's problem since the dealers support the engines 100%. The dealer said it was not their problem, because it was a Volvo defect. Ultimately, neither Volvo or Coastal Marine stepped up to support me.

I'll never own another Volvo while they have a program of not supporting their engines when the dealer does not step up. They simply create an atmosphere where they point the finger at each other and the customer gets screwed. That was an $18K mistake on my part to trust Volvo.

Click to expand...


I saw something similar on a gas powered Formula, and I wrote about it on here at the time.
Short version, there was one of the bigger Formulas at the boat yard that was taking on water just offshore off of Cameron, La.
The engines ended up getting swamped and the Pilot boat towed them inshore.
Formula said it was a Volvo warranty issue, they won't cover it. Volvo said the warranty issue was covered by the Formula dealer, that it was out of their hands.
Lady who owned the boat got the insurance to cover it and then let the insurance try to get their money back from Formula.
 
There are horror stories about every make of engine. One bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch. Merc had ingestion issues I have heard crusaders going bad when still fairly new. On the flip side I have heard of all engine companies making good on repairs. It comes down to did the boat manufacturer install engine to specs or not.
 
diesel can put out about 80% of its rated HP all day long, if you run a gas engine like that it wont be very long before the next rebuild. thats why you generally dont see gas on planning hulls over 20,000 #, if you get over that weight threshold and want gas you'll need a third engine. a slim center console can carry more weight and still use gas, but as your beam goes up with weight, diesel quickly becomes the only option.
 
Walter,
If you are looking at a 45', diesels are a must as Hogan stated. The boat is to large and weighs to much for gas. Plus you will burn through gas like no tomorrow and have little torque. I have a pair of Volvo TAMD74P-A's (480hp each with 225hrs when purchased) in my Trojan. They are electronic which I love, as they do not smoke when starting and warming up. Big plus. I have had no major issues with these engines. However I also conduct preventative maintenance on the engines. I do not have anything bad to say about my Volvo's or Volvo in general. I am happy!

When it come to parts and costs. Each manufacturer sets their own price. All my parts come from All Island Marine. Mike C. is fantastic to work with. If you have an issue he is more than helpful to step you through it if he can. I had a issue when one engine would not start after it was running during the day. I called Mike and he told me to check the battery terminal as it may be loose. My engines require a certain apmerage to start. Turned out that by battery cable was loose. We did this right over the phone. I did not get a well schedule a service call as others would have.

When is come to maintenance on a boat calculate 10% of the cost of the boat per year. This is the average cost per year to operate and maintain your boat including dockage.

For annual maintenance on my Volvo's. See below.
Fuel Filter Primary - 1 Racor 900 on each engine = 2 filters - cost per filter $7.00
Fuel filters Secondary - 2 on each engine = 4 Cost $20.00 each.
Oil Filter - 2 per engine. One large one small = 4 - Cost $24. for small $30.00 for large
Impeller Kit - 1 per engine = 2 $65.00 each.
Thermostats - 1 per engine $45.00 each.
Oil- approx 7 gls per engine. 13.50gl. for Shell Rotella 15w-40 (recomended by technician)
Volvo Coolant - 5gls per engine then mix with distilled water $28.00 gl. = 10 gls.

Change oil and filters once a year.
Change fuel filters once per year or when needed.
Add diesel additive at end of year and in summer to clean injectors. (cost $15.00 per engine)
Change coolant every 2/3 years. Check every year with refractometer.
Change trans oil/ filters every 2 years.
Check zincs in engine every year and change when needed.
I also take samples of my oil and coolant for Engines/Trans/Generator every year. They are sent to Foley Catapiller in NJ were they analize everything and provide a report. This shows me any signs of wear on the engines and cooling system. To me, this is vital to the health of an engine.

When it comes to cost for maintenance, it is all relative. Diesel engines can cost $60-$80k per engine (new), Gas ($15-$20K)per engine.

The best part I love, These engines are quieter than my gas engines I use to have and burn less fuel based on size and weigh of the boat.

Go take a sea trial. You will see and feel the difference.
 
Bob- Unless you don't get a chance to use the boat very much I'm a little surprised to see for your diesels you only list oil & all filters changed once annually , and that pencil zincs are only checked at the same rate. Even my blue gas MPI's spec 50 hr oil & filter change and monthly pencil zinc check (& replace at 1/2 size) , but I'd think 100 hrs would be the max interval spec'd for diesels. But then the analysis would indicate if any anything was wearing or leaking.
 
quote:
Originally posted by CurrentSea

There are horror stories about every make of engine. One bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch. Merc had ingestion issues I have heard crusaders going bad when still fairly new. On the flip side I have heard of all engine companies making good on repairs. It comes down to did the boat manufacturer install engine to specs or not.

Click to expand...

Dave injestion issues are generally the boat builders problem not the engines installed. In fact there was an ajudication that involved US Boats, a couple, Marine Power and Luhrs corp.
There was plenty of blame on Luhrs part for not having the recommended risers or clearance for the risers.
In fact Luhrs stopped producing gas engine boats after this issue.
Bill
 
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