Any Old " WOOD BOATERS" Left out there ?
- Thread starter Jimmy.S
- Start date
I grew up on wood boats and remember that whenever we got a new boat, my dad would go through the trouble of stripping off all the old paint on the hull and superstructure by using a blow torch and paint scraper. (Environmentally , I don't know if you can get away doing that anymore.) It was a mess, but it showed him what he was working with. And as noted, wood boats, especially those that have not been in the water for a while need to swell in the sling, overnight or at least until they stop taking on water.
Good luck with the lady and remember that it's a lot of work, but it's a labor of love!
Lady C
Good luck with the lady and remember that it's a lot of work, but it's a labor of love!
Lady C
80 grit is great on the bottom. For most topside enamel I like 120 on the wood, 120 or 150 for sanding paints coats. For varnish: 120 on the wood as well. I use 220 on varnish building coats.
We still have boat yards that are friendly to wood. They must meet EPA regs as they operate close to the water. It's not all that difficult to contain paint residue. A heat gun and scraper is still one of the favorite methods for varnish removal. I prefer to slather paint and varnish with Jasco Premium and scrape it off.
We still have boat yards that are friendly to wood. They must meet EPA regs as they operate close to the water. It's not all that difficult to contain paint residue. A heat gun and scraper is still one of the favorite methods for varnish removal. I prefer to slather paint and varnish with Jasco Premium and scrape it off.
I could just scuff it with the 80 then wipe it down but I figured if I go bare wood if I see any fastener problems when I pull some out it would reveal the plugs and I could also see exactly what I'm dealing with any tips on getting the old plugs out I'm thinking just drilling them out is there A bit for that of just A forstiner bit. The paint that is there is not blistering or anything as A matter of fact it looks good but I want to caulk and paint it so I know when it was done last and done right. I figured that wet sanding would just be an extra step anyway the paint I am using is self polishing. ill just scuff it and lay on 2 fresh coats I only need 5 gal of paint and 2 gal of that 120 brushing stuff. Now to spray, brush or roll I'm thinking roll myself being there are some other boats pretty close and I don't want to risk messing them up with over spray. Anyone tried Pettit VIVID bottom paint I hear it is kick a** and the price is not too bad I called around and surfed the internet got some great info and prices even went as far as talking to the factory rep.
Local knowledge is always the best when it comes to bottom paints. Some work much better than others in specific bodies of water.
No need to take all of the bottom paint off to bare wood if the paint layer is sound. You can go to bare wood in areas where you want to uncover fasteners and double coat it before doing the rest of the bottom. Caulk before painting and clean out seams prior to caulking. Many sealants cure with exposure to water vapor so allow time for cure before covering with paint. Your bottom paint should be the last thing done prior to launch. Many of these paints specify a time window between application and splash.
No need to take all of the bottom paint off to bare wood if the paint layer is sound. You can go to bare wood in areas where you want to uncover fasteners and double coat it before doing the rest of the bottom. Caulk before painting and clean out seams prior to caulking. Many sealants cure with exposure to water vapor so allow time for cure before covering with paint. Your bottom paint should be the last thing done prior to launch. Many of these paints specify a time window between application and splash.
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Jimmy,
You have a beautiful boat. Don't sweat the small stuff. Put her in the water and see what happens. Give her a few days to swell. Make sure the bilge pumps work. Don't worry if she leaks a lot over the first few days. They all do. Start the engines after the third day. Starting before that makes vibrations that slow the swelling of the hull planks.
Once you know everything works, take her out and enjoy her. Your list of things to do for next winter will be long and you'll never get it all done. That's just the way it is when you own a piece of American boating history.
Take her to some new places and see how many people come over and ask about your boat. Give them a tour. Listen to their stories about their grandfathers' boat that was just like yours.
Boating isn't about re-fastening planks. It is about getting new and different friends. It is about exchanging Christmas cards in the winter.
Boating is about new friendships.
I'd say enjoy your boat.
Bill
You have a beautiful boat. Don't sweat the small stuff. Put her in the water and see what happens. Give her a few days to swell. Make sure the bilge pumps work. Don't worry if she leaks a lot over the first few days. They all do. Start the engines after the third day. Starting before that makes vibrations that slow the swelling of the hull planks.
Once you know everything works, take her out and enjoy her. Your list of things to do for next winter will be long and you'll never get it all done. That's just the way it is when you own a piece of American boating history.
Take her to some new places and see how many people come over and ask about your boat. Give them a tour. Listen to their stories about their grandfathers' boat that was just like yours.
Boating isn't about re-fastening planks. It is about getting new and different friends. It is about exchanging Christmas cards in the winter.
Boating is about new friendships.
I'd say enjoy your boat.
Bill
chriscraft67 I agree with you but there are some things I want to be sure of first and bottom paint and caulk is one of them someone here caught 2 planks that were starting to rise proud on the port side and I want to take A good careful look from bow to stern and check all ribs and planks and take A look at that transom I think it is only pulling away because she is on the hard and will be fine with a little refastening after she settles back into shape but I want to make sure everything else is good seeing as how my family will be on her most of the summer and I have always had trust issues and now that I saw the footage of the PIZZAZZ I am even more cautious. Thanks.
chiropaul23
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HI Jimmy,
While you're getting some great advice here, I would suggest going to www.woodenboat.com and joining the forums. Unbelievable amount of information on wooden boat repair and maintenance. Also, for screws, etc. check out Jamestown Distributors and Defender. Good luck with your boat, she looks great.
While you're getting some great advice here, I would suggest going to www.woodenboat.com and joining the forums. Unbelievable amount of information on wooden boat repair and maintenance. Also, for screws, etc. check out Jamestown Distributors and Defender. Good luck with your boat, she looks great.
Any thoughts on what caulk to use on the bottom plank joints i'm looking at 3M 4200 and 5200 or is there something better out there? and thanks for that link J-D is great and been cruzin it for A while now found the screws I wanted now I'm looking at caulk. I want to have this stuff all ready and in hand when I head up to the marina as soon as the weather breaks, I will be taking up A few guys with me all with strong construction backgrounds and A weird willingness to work for free ( Personally I think it is A free week 5 hours away from the wife is what they are thinking.)
Having the boat in the water for a few weeks will give you an idea of which seams need to be caulked. You won't have that advantage this time because you are working with a dry boat only.
Be careful about what seams you caulk as you could do more damage than good with a lot of caulking. Those planks need room to swell and if there is a lot of caulk to prevent them from doing that then the planks will have to make room by moving and pulling up fasteners.
Don't worry about seams open 1/8". Those will seal up. You may have a need to caulk seams closer to 1/4" or more on a double planked bottom.
Best to be conservative in caulking seams and deal with the small leakers that you find when you haul out for the next bottom paint.
I caulked a couple of the larger seams on my boat 13 years ago. I hauled out several times since then for bottom paint but haven't done any additional caulking. You want to use the stickiest, softest, most compressible and flexible below the waterline sealant you can find. I used Sikaflex 231 13 years ago but the product is no longer available. I don't know what I'd use right now. Maybe Sikaflex 291 LOT.
In general, I think 3M 5200 is too hard and stiff for doing a lot of bottom seams. For a couple it could be fine. I haven't worked with 4200.
A lot of guys still use the traditional Pettit and Interlux seam compounds that are applied with a putty knife. Those will squeeze out as a seam seals up but they turn hard and brittle over the years. I haven't tried those yet.
Be careful about what seams you caulk as you could do more damage than good with a lot of caulking. Those planks need room to swell and if there is a lot of caulk to prevent them from doing that then the planks will have to make room by moving and pulling up fasteners.
Don't worry about seams open 1/8". Those will seal up. You may have a need to caulk seams closer to 1/4" or more on a double planked bottom.
Best to be conservative in caulking seams and deal with the small leakers that you find when you haul out for the next bottom paint.
I caulked a couple of the larger seams on my boat 13 years ago. I hauled out several times since then for bottom paint but haven't done any additional caulking. You want to use the stickiest, softest, most compressible and flexible below the waterline sealant you can find. I used Sikaflex 231 13 years ago but the product is no longer available. I don't know what I'd use right now. Maybe Sikaflex 291 LOT.
In general, I think 3M 5200 is too hard and stiff for doing a lot of bottom seams. For a couple it could be fine. I haven't worked with 4200.
A lot of guys still use the traditional Pettit and Interlux seam compounds that are applied with a putty knife. Those will squeeze out as a seam seals up but they turn hard and brittle over the years. I haven't tried those yet.
Well on that note I may not need to caulk at all When I went over the hull over the summer I really didn't see anything more than 1/16, 1/8 throughout the whole bottom I'll look again if I don't see anything ill just scuff it up and lay on the paint.
I agree dont use 5200 type stuff it adheres to well. Something soft and squeezable that can be removed without taking the wood with it. IMO you really need to read a lot about how folks take care of wood boats today because it sounds like you are getting the wrong information from product brochures intended for fiberglass boats; e.g. wet sanding, 5200, 220 grit polishing etc. I understand that you’re enthusiastic and serious but be cautious to not do stuff that cant be reversed or is unnecessary.
Wood is very different than FG and requires a lot of techniques, products and skills long forgotten by most folks including me. Most folks in boat supply stores and yards today cant spell wood. As a hint, if it smells bad don’t use it, the older wood products had nicer smells than modern stuff.
Anybody make dolphinite any more??
There are wood boat restoration schools where you can learn from the masters. It might be worthwhile to attend one to learn how to property heal your baby. IYRS, Mystic seaport come to mind.
Wood is very different than FG and requires a lot of techniques, products and skills long forgotten by most folks including me. Most folks in boat supply stores and yards today cant spell wood. As a hint, if it smells bad don’t use it, the older wood products had nicer smells than modern stuff.
Anybody make dolphinite any more??
There are wood boat restoration schools where you can learn from the masters. It might be worthwhile to attend one to learn how to property heal your baby. IYRS, Mystic seaport come to mind.
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Agree with others. You need to enlist help from someone with lots of experience in wood boat building, repairs and maintainance. It's a totally different animal that most boat people don't have a clue what to do. They might think they do, but they don't.
I am in no way an expert, but I'm 99% sure that 4200 and 5200 types of caulk are not the way to go. You need caulk specifically made for wood boat seams and not many people carry that type of product anymore.
When my boat was done, the yard had to order special caulk for the job as they had never carried it and that was 12 years ago.
I am in no way an expert, but I'm 99% sure that 4200 and 5200 types of caulk are not the way to go. You need caulk specifically made for wood boat seams and not many people carry that type of product anymore.
When my boat was done, the yard had to order special caulk for the job as they had never carried it and that was 12 years ago.
I'm pretty sure that Pacemaker is standard Carval Planked, that is plank on frame construction. As such you will have standard butts and seams to have to caulk. The frames are steam bent oak and very small, the butts will not end on the frame, but will be between the frames and covered inside the hull with a butt block. Caulking a wood boat takes more than a gooping material into an opening. If the your inspection of the fastners shows all to be in good condition and your hull planking is sound then you can proceed with caulking. This function takes great skill, much more than it appears to require. Sound is a very important part of the caulking process. It takes an experienced ear to properly caulk a wood hull. It also requires the use of a proper Caulking hammer, caulking irons and cotton. Quick process I have used on my wood boat for many years. Clean the seam or butt well, scrape out all the old cotton and seam compound. Caulk the seam/butt with cotton, being careful not to spread or open the area, but drive in sufficient cotton. Seal the area with a good quality flat top coat paint (I use white to contrast with the green bottom paint and make the caulked seams and butt stand out) Allow that paint to dry. (this seals the cotton fibers and prevents water intrusion) Prime the recently caulked areas with bottom paint, cut 50/50 with mineral spirits, be sure and work the paint into seam/butt and cover the white primer coat. Allow that coating to dry well. Fill the seam/butt with Petit Seam Compound using a putty knife. (I heat the seam compound in boiling water, with the lid off, of course, this makes it flow better) Be careful to not over fill the seam as the excess will come out when the vessel is lifted by the Travel Lift and when the planking swells. Coat the bottom with your anti-foul of choice and you should be good to go. You should not have to caulk the same seams/butts every year, unless you have other problems. Never, Never, Never try to caulk a seam from inside the boat, except in a dire emergency as this will destroy the bevel in the planking. Stay away from the product known as "Slick Seam". FYI: 3M-5200 was developed as a Bedding Compound to bed the frames on high end wood yachts and military vessels.
These were taken during a complete rebuild, due to the original use of Iron Nails that only lasted about forty years. We used Monel Nails in the rebuilt as those should be good for a 100 years or more.
These were taken during a complete rebuild, due to the original use of Iron Nails that only lasted about forty years. We used Monel Nails in the rebuilt as those should be good for a 100 years or more.
Nice 5200 hull. BTW, the 5200 hull is a construction technique well described in books by boat builder Don Danenberg. 5200 hulls have to be built that way way from the frame up. You can't turn a traditional wood hull into a 5200 hull by doing a few seams with 5200, nor should you attempt to do so.
Interesting note: According to Danenberg: "Chris-Craft did not begin using 3M-5200 until 1966, and then only in their Cavalier and Sea Skiff lines. It was found to be too expensive to use on the assembly line on the planked hulls."
Interesting note: According to Danenberg: "Chris-Craft did not begin using 3M-5200 until 1966, and then only in their Cavalier and Sea Skiff lines. It was found to be too expensive to use on the assembly line on the planked hulls."