Any Old " WOOD BOATERS" Left out there ?

What CWMS said!!! This is very important and it should be one of your first priorities.
And yes it is labor intensive and expensive, but if not done it can result in a loss.
I spent many an hour laying on my back under my Dad's 40' boat replacing screws. I would
look into this before doing anthing else. My second concern is WHY the transom needs
replacing .. I assume dry rot somewhere .. if so where else ???

You will end up with a beautiful boat and a labor of love .. but don't ignore the
advice you are getting.
 
quote:
Originally posted by RWS

Perhaps a SURVEY by a wood boat specialist would be a reasonable investment/insurance plan?

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I could not possibly agree with this more. Get yourself a specialist to do a complete survey for you. Yes, it will cost you a few bucks but in the long run can save you a heck of a lot more.

Plus, he will be able to answer ALL your questions and leave no doubts.

Bob
 
I second the suggestions of getting a survey. You will probably not be able to insure her without one anyway. Wooden boats can be great, I have been out on fishing charters out of Hatteras a number of times in very rough conditions on one or another of the Albatross Fleet boats, the newest one, the Albatross III is 57 years old, and she is a very seaworthy boat. The original Albatross is 72 years old. However, these boats have been in continuous use and have been kept up to date by very knowledgeable owners. On the other hand, I could have acquired a 42' wooden Owens a few years ago with rebuilt engines (454's) for free a few years ago--but passed on the opportunity because I knew she was rotten and it would take man years of work to bring her back. She sank a couple of years after that when the owners (not the original owner--she was indeed given away) took her out on the Chesapeake in near gale conditions against all advice (everybody survived, fortunately). What you have could be fun for you, but you will have to commit yourself to a lot of work, even if the boat has been re-fastened. If you don't enjoy working on boats, you might want to re-consider and let someone else have the pleasure. Good luck with her, nice old woodie.
 
OK, guys that clears up a lot of my concerns, I am not afraid of the work or getting dirty. If that's the case I should be fine then I can handle that if I just do below the water line this spring then the rest of the hull in fall when I got her on land anyway I should be good then right? Any suggestions on getting the plugs out ? I'm thinking just drill them out with A forsiner bit. Why can I not start the engines for 3 days after launch? This first summer I don't plan on taking her out at all I just want to put her in the slip and have someplace to stay while I work my tail off all summer on her while it is warm. as far as the transom replacement it may not need to be replaced I just saw some places where it was starting to pull away from the hull this may be A result of needing to be refastened though. Maybe the previous owner never knew about this job because that was the first thing he pointed out when I talked to him. He also said there was NO rot anywhere but check anyway just to be sure. I agree I am NOT going to put myself let alone my wife and kids on ANYTHING I or anyone else deems unsafe. I did see that thread on the PIZZAZ what A bummer there she was beautiful. I will be getting A survey done soon too I talked to my insurance agent and they want one before they will insure her "due to age" the marina guy knows A guy that did his when he tried to sell his 50' Sea Ray but that didn't work out too well from what he says. He told me this guy is great to have around if you want to buy A boat but you don't want him around if your trying to sell one. But he did uncover A problem with his that he fixed right away but by the time he got it done the guy bought another boat. This guy only charged him like $250.00.
 
Complete survey of a wood 50' boat for $250? That's really cheap.

Personally, if it were me, I'd get the survey done first thing, before I laid so much as a screwdriver to her. Doing so will tell you exactly where to start with your rebuild.

Bob
 
I agree that having the boat surveyed by a seasoned surveyor well versed in wood boats is a must.
But, from my own experience, even a seasoned boat veteran can miss problems.
When you are crawling around the bilge, take a pocket knife and probe the rib tips. That's where the ribs join into the keel. The tips are most prone to being underwater most if not all the time. A "totally dry bilge" is an oxymoron when it comes to wood boats.
When you check the tips, you will find some softness in the wood. If the softness is basically limited to the surface or slightly into the wood, no problem. If the softness extends deep into the rib, than you have a problem.
My surveyor didn't do this and about 10 months after I bought the boat, the problem reared it's ugly head and cost me a lot of money to reinforce these ribs.
I brought this to the attention of my surveyor, along with a copy of my repair bill and he gave me his fee back plus a couple hundred dollars. Didn't begin to cover the repair, but it helped.
Also look into the bonding system on your boat. If you have one, your surveyor may suggest disconnecting it. The bonding system is good on fiberglass boats, but many consider it not so good for wood boats.

We're not here to be "gloom and doom" but to pass on the realities of wood boat ownership.
 
Just read your last post. If you decide to go ahead with refastening, find someone with that knowledge and experience to at least get you started. This is not a job for a newbie to jump into.

Agree with rnbenton that $250 for a survey is awfully cheap. There's not a decent surveyor out there that charges less than $15 per foot for a "full survey" and you need a "full survey". And when you do get a survey, follow the guy around and ask lots of questions. You will find out more about the boat doing this for 1/2 a day than you will in weeks of ownership.

Also, about not starting engines for a couple of days after splashing, there's no reason why you can't tow your boat to its slip to give it time to swell and reshape itself.
 
His boat is A 50' Fiberglass Sea Ray and that's what he was charged him, he didn't know what he would charge me for A woody but if he is as good as the marina owner says he is he would be the guy. as for the rib tips good idea ill check that. I have been adding up all the ideas you guys been throwing out there and I REALLY do appreciate it and WILL be using it all and then some you guys are great and if anyone wants to get A hold of me my cell # is 484-894-4677 and I can be reached at any time,,,THANKS AGAIN guys.
 
When it comes to surveying boats, you can do an insurance survey or a pre-purchase survey. Even though you have already bought the boat, you want the pre-purchase survey. That is the much more comprehensive than an insurance survey.
I'm willing to bet that $250 for a 50 footer was an insurance survey which is much cheaper than a pre-purchase.
These days, most surveyors are charging $15-20 (or more) per foot for a pre-purchase survey.
The guy that has been suggested to you, he should be a member of either NAMS or SAMS. Google both and see if he is accredited with either organization. If he is a full time surveyor, he will have a brochure on himself, listing his experience and qualifications, his boating background/training and services offered.
When you do google SAMS and NAMS, you can also look for other surveyors in your area. Not a bad idea to interview several.
 
You are getting excellent advise regarding a survey for your boat. Buying a used boat (regardless of hull material) without a survey is a crapshoot unless you have a good surveyor's experience and knowledge yourself.

It's impossible for me to do much more than comment in broad generalities regarding your boat. As mentioned above I'd look carefully at every plank that has started to rise out of place: discover the cause and address it if you choose to stay with the boat. The bow of a boat tends to get the most structural stress and the transom is usually the first place to show signs of rot. Above the hull, leakage of rainwater due to poor sealing and coatings can cause damage far away from the original leak. The condition of hull and bottom fasteners has been well covered here but I stress the need to avoid making any decisions prior to pulling the sample batch. Boat construction, materials, location of screws, water type, and how the boat was used and cared for are contributing factors. Keep in mind that there are different ways to refasten a bottom and it doesn't necessarily have to all be done at once. Some refasten a portion of the bottom with each haul-out for bottom painting. Again, it all depends on the condition of each boat.

If you read enough of marine surveyor David Pascoe you might decide that every boat (wooden or fiberglass) over twenty years old should be cut up for scrap. This article does give you an idea how nasty things can happen to old woodies.

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/Wood.htm
 
Jimmy.S...If I am not mistaken, did you not mention that this boat was located on Lake Ontario? If that is the case, then I am thinking that as a fresh-H2O vessel, she will not need to be refastened, and further, if (and when) you (or your surveyor) get around to removing random fasteners for inspection, you will find them to be in as good condition as the day that they were installed. Though I could be wrong, I don't think so. :)
 
Bill 2, for silicon bronze screws: you're right. They could look like new or show a little oxide with no substantial wasting.
 
Jimmy: since the boat is already dry it might be better to keep it out of the water this summer and instead of working on the top and inside first secure the bottom and transom. IMO a solid hull is your first priority rather than good looks.
 
the solution to a bad transom was to saw off the old one and bulid a new one a few inches forward of the old one. The baot needs to be carefully chocked to hold shape first.
 
quote:
Originally posted by pdecat

the solution to a bad transom was to saw off the old one and bulid a new one a few inches forward of the old one. The baot needs to be carefully chocked to hold shape first.

Click to expand...
You have to be kidding. Yes, it can be done this way.

For every wooden transom you have planking across the transom, plank ends from the hull sides and framing.

Rot on the planks usually starts at the end grain. Replace the planks completely on an individual basis, do partial plank replacement on an individual basis or if the rot damage is limited to small areas around fasteners: cut out damaged wood followed by aggressive treatment with penetrating epoxy including all nearby end grain and replace with new wooden plugs. Seal the new wood.

Keep in mind that rot can send tracers a couple of feet along the wood grain. Proper use of penetrating epoxy (CPES) at end grain can kill it off, however.

The same process applies to framing. It's always best to replace rotted wood parts completely but repair can work. Any sound wooden frame parts that make contact with rotten parts should be sealed with CPES at the end grain.

Then seal and paint the wood frames and reassemble with with sealant and fasteners. Follow with needed top coats of sealer, paint or varnish.
 
even though transom planks were frequently doubled at the hull and bottom end rot and splitting as you point out makes repair more difficult. Cutting back to new wood has advantages. Just trying to give jimmy some solutions to old problems.
 
I don't know how common double planked hulls were on batten seamed recreational cruisers. Mine is double planked on the bottom and single above the water line. I've seen Elco and Higgins PT and AR boats from WW2 that had double or triple planked bottoms and sides.
 
I had a 1947 Chris Craft when I was a kid, bottom was double planked, sides were single planked with battens.
 
Thanks guys,
I'll tear into it at the first sight of warm weather. I have to sand down the bottom to bare wood anyway for paint and caulk in the spring as per the directions on the paint can they want me to hit it with 80 grit and take it down to bare wood then wipe it all down with some other crap 120 brushing something or other then mix 50/50 paint/ 120 brushing stuff and put on A spit coat wait 24 hr then top coat with 2 coats straight paint. so when I have it bare I will check A random batch the fasteners in the bottom from several different places. Any suggestions on finish sanding, they only mention 80 grit but I would like to go to 100,120,150 to A 220 finish then paint. Is this 80 and done just giving the paint more to bite to or can I take it further down to 220? Directions on the can say nothing other then the 80. I don't care either way 80 and done is easier and quicker for me but 220 will look nice and it will be easier to wet sand it at the end.
 
No need to go more than 80 grit on the bottom.
 
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