Breaker issue

Have you tried a 30/30/30 Y adaptor ? feed both inlets with one cord ....

If this was my situation.....I would start by checking " continuity " thru the 2 cords and boat main breaker panel first. That would eliminate the boat as the problem.
 
Wouldn't one of those outlet testers tell if wiring is backwards??
 
Only to a point, and they are hard if not impossible to find for twist locks, I have never seen one for a twist lock, only for standard duplex. Not saying they dont exist, but just have never seen one. I actually doubt at this point they are reversed, but it is possible. Very likely the neutrals and ground share a common buss, this wont work with a gfci breaker, they dont like that...........D........
 
D....if you do a " continuity " test thru both cords connected to the boat with the mains closed and the positive prongs on the cords test clear ( that there is no back feed )...and the neutral and ground prongs have continuity then IMHO its a marina issue.
 
quote:

Originally posted by D. Andrews

Only to a point, and they are hard if not impossible to find for twist locks, I have never seen one for a twist lock, only for standard duplex. Not saying they dont exist, but just have never seen one.






All you do is take a 30a to 15a adapter and plug an outlet tester into it. :-)
 
D. Andrew,

Please let me know what other info you need.
Thanks,
Jim

Two 100 amp circuit breakers on shore panel. Don't appear to be GFCI

30amp GFCI breakers in subpanel on dock, twenty feet from pedestal. 50 foot 30amp twist lock cords to boat. Boat is 250ft from shore at the end of the dock.

Plug at pedestal: NEMA L5 30
Cords: 30A 125v (No other markings)
Boat plug: L5 30

Tested outlets on pedestal:
Ground to Hot (larger slot) 119v
Ground to neutral (smaller slot) 0
***Both outlets identical with setup and volts

Tested cords on boat side:
Ground to Hot (larger slot) 118v
Ground to neutral (smaller slot) 0
***Both cords identical with setup and volts

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1021112/fullsize/img_20140506_180911_825.jpg[/img]]

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1021113/fullsize/img_20140506_182225_860.jpg[/img]]
G
 
I had the same problem at my Marina. Solved it by moving the plug to a different slot. My pedestal has four 30 amp plugs 1234 I get a short if I use 1&2 or 3&4 Simple fix I use 1&3 or 2&4 no more short, when I go to a marina with only two outlets on the pedestal I plug into two different pedestals. Did this for twenty three seasons. It provided the boat with 60 amps total. Maybe your boat is wired like that.
 
Capt bill1, yes you can do that, if you have the adaptor, but, if comes back reversed, which is it, the chicken or the egg? :)

Iron works, yep that will do it, because the hot, in a properly laid out panel, will come from the same phase, or more simply, the same side of the panel. 1 and 2 should be on the opposite sides, and 3 and 4 should be on opposite sides, using a 1 and 3 or 2 and 4 combo, there will be no differential between the lines. This is one thing GFCI's don't like, you have a different potential between the two lines feeding the panel, thus 240vac, if the potential was the same, it would not read any voltage between the two legs. You can prove this with a meter, test hot to hot on plugs 1 and 2, then 3 and 4, they will read 240, test between 1 and 3 and 2 and 4, they will read near zero.

32 carv, looks like everything is in order, and you have a nice looking set up by the way. There are a couple different ways to fix this. Using different outlets is one, if that is available to you. Using an isolation transformer is another, but expense and weight are big factors, but this would be the code worthy fix. Here is the fix if it were my boat, I would isolate the grounds and neutrals from each other. You have one circuit feeding the normal house loads. You have another circuit feeding nothing but the ac. Each of which have a ground and neutral from shore power. I am going into this with the assumption you do not have a gen set big enough to run the ac when not on shore power. Two methods of this, depending on panel type. Method one, remove the bonding jumper from the two neutral busses and the two ground busses, if you have two. This will separate the grounds and neutrals between the two while still giving you the same level of protection. Or, if you do not have separate busses, locate the grounds and neutrals from the ac shore power supply, and the ac units, wire nut the neutrals from incoming and out going together, and wire nut the grounds together the same way. This will isolate the grounds and neutrals from each other while leaving the primary circuit protection in place and not defeating the GFCI protection. There is nothing in the code that I can think of that specifically prevents this.

Downside, if you have a genset big enough to run the entire boat, this wont work, not with out a bit more work. If you do have one, let me know and I can give you some choices there, none of which will be cheap and easy. Also, with the wire nut option, you have another place for bad connections or corrosion to happen. If it works for you, you can look into other type connections, or best solution is to install a sub panel for your ac loads, bit more expense but a better solution in the long run. It is unlikely you will be able to convince the marina to remove the GFCI breakers..........D..........
 
D......

Method one, remove the bonding jumper from the two neutral busses and the two ground busses, if you have two. This will separate the grounds and neutrals between the two while still giving you the same level of protection.

*************************************************

BEFORE I'd do that I'd make SURE that ALL the neutrals are in just the neutral buss......and ALL the grounds are in just the ground buss. IF there are any neutrals in the ground buss ( or visa versa )....and you lift the bond....you will be running devices with NO neutrals.....grounds are NOT neutrals and neutrals are NOT grounds

Just saying........
 
D - Thank you! I was guessing that would be the fix but feel better hearing it from you. I will take the panel off to see what is there. I will post some pictures when done.
Jim
 
I plugged in at the marina next door last night and as expected, no breaker issue.
Jim
 
quote:

Originally posted by 32carv

I plugged in at the marina next door last night and as expected, no breaker issue.
Jim




Well in my opinion you eliminated your boat as being the problem.
Bill
 
I had a similar issue when My marina instlled new power to the docks with GFi at each pedestool. When I plugged my boat into the circuit, the breakers would flip in the boat. Turns out that the Gfi on my boat didn't react well with the GFi on the pedistool. Once the GFi on the dock was removed, all was well.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Billylll
Well in my opinion you eliminated your boat as being the problem.
Bill






+1

But if the Marina doesn't agree to remove the GFI's.....then he still has a problem.
 
Worked on the problem tonight. Opened the panel and found that grounds were connected from both circuits. There was a jumper between the two main breakers, the grounds were all connected to a common bus, and the two grounds off the feeds were connected at the galvanic isolator (blue thing). The neutrals appeared to be separate.

img_20140506_182225_860.jpg

boat-7.jpg


I removed the jumper between the breakers, pulled the ground wires off of the bus and the galvanic isolator and spliced them together.

boat-6.jpg

boat-1.jpg

boat-3.jpg


At this point, the ground and the neutrals appear to be separated. The issue is still there. Each circuit works fine individually but when I turn the both on, the breakers on the dock still trip. The hot wires share a common bus but I am assuming that it is not the issue.

I followed the wires three times and am sure that I pulled the correct wires.

What else should I look at?
Jim
 
Are you saying both black (hot) feeds share a common buss? Are you sure? That doesn't sound right.
Bill
 
Bill,
If you look at the second picture from the top, the two white wires at the bottom are the main feeds.
Jim
 
If you have white ( neutral) wire going to the breaker.....my guess is its a GFI breaker.
 
I see it now. I'm a dumb ass. I was thinking white was hot but it is the neutral. They are connected as well as the ground. I assume they need to be separated.
Jim
 
I'm confused now. If you proved your boat wasn't the problem by plugging in at another marina, why are you re-wiring your panel?
 
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