Does anyone here own a Gulfstar trawler?

quote:
Originally posted by pdecat

I was not clear. It is possible that someone adjusted the fuel rack for higher hp. Forget all paperwork and read the engine plate. Check rpm for the two ratings on makers specs sheets. There is nothing wrong with under propping as long as you operate within specs. Under propping might give better acceleration after being stopped by a wave. Big waves are common in ca.

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I'll do that next time on the boat Bruce. I just spoke to the NJ Marina and W1 will be launched before next weekend.
Wireless Too will be coming out of the water after the generator is repaired for some minor blistering repair of the port side rudder. We are talking about a fiberglass guy doing the work and it's a not to exceed $500 repair.
I'll ask again could the fact that I didn't have 200 gallons of fuel matter when it comes to max rpms vs speed? Perhaps not in a displacement hull? This boat is a true trawler.
Bill
 
Are you sure 154 and 236 are not different displacement engines?? I think 4-236 ,means 4 cyl 236 CU IN
 
Yes weight matters, don't sweat it. If that is truly propped low just run within makers RPM specs after it is all loaded up.

Did I say I hate boat brokers and their stupid diesel ,comments??? If it spun up to 4000 RPM would he have run it there waiting for parts to fly off?? They would impart more information if they just kept their traps shut.
 
quote:
Originally posted by AustinPaul

Glad you're off to a positive start with her. Got to be a nice feeling to feel reinvigorated about boating again.

I had the same experience over the past few years after getting lots of things done to the boat, and a brand-new marina that does not require a boat shuttle to get to/from boat during our extended drought w/ low lake levels.

Look forward to hearing and seeing more of your journey!

Paul

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Paul, invigorated? You betcha!
I haven't felt this way in about 4 years when it comes to boating. I'm excited to soon but not soon enough be a trawler owner. I was reviewing my upgrade list and the dollars sure add up fast even though I will be doing most of the work myself. I have decided I'm limiting the removal of very few systems on Wireless One, they will be, the KVH M3 (Direct TV), the Fleet Broadband Skipper 150 (VSAT), the FLIR (in motion thermal imager), the Garmin 6212 MFD 1 of 3, the $$$ NMEA2000 heading sensor (replacing it with a KVH NMEA0183 sensor, my Class B AIS transponder (it can't be reprogrammed so it must go with me) one of 2 Garmin VHF200 (it will be replaced with a Uniden 625 w/ wireless remotes), the Hold-N-Treat Purasan system, my ham radio and antenna tuner, the Spectra 12VDC water maker, the IP700 Fusion head (it's be replaced with the 3 year old JBL stereo. Of the small items I will remove 2 PLB's and 1-EPIRB, a cellphone cradle booster for my Galaxy, our wet suits and our immersion cold weather suits.
Who ever gets Wireless One will be getting a fantastic buy for well under $50k. I'll be putting W1 in the classified section here once this stuff is removed the railing is repaired from Sandy and a few scuffs are finished (all very minor).
I'm beyond excited.......
Bill
 
quote:
Originally posted by pdecat

Yes weight matters, don't sweat it. If that is truly propped low just run within makers RPM specs after it is all loaded up.

Did I say I hate boat brokers and their stupid diesel ,comments??? If it spun up to 4000 RPM would he have run it there waiting for parts to fly off?? They would impart more information if they just kept their traps shut.

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I insisted he run it below 3000 after about 5 minutes at 3300 rpm. This assumes the Tachs are somewhat accurate. He did prove it didn't smoke and it held together. I'm told by 2 others that have the same vessel and 4-154 Perkins that they typically cruise at 2200 rpm.
The Tachs get their signals from the alternators. Probably not the best place to get the signals from?
Bill
 
quote:
Originally posted by pdecat

Are you sure 154 and 236 are not different displacement engines?? I think 4-236 ,means 4 cyl 236 CU IN

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They are a different displacement engines I'm sure of that Bruce. The 154 is cu in where the 236 is also cu in.
Bill
 
Ok I was reacting to your lower hp version comment.
 
Thanks Smitty, the Perkins engine guide that came with the boat recommends a top rpm of 3000 for the 4-154 engine.
I just saved this PDF for my files.
I looked at Boat Diesel and it appears there is some debate about who manufactured these engines some say Toyota did under Perkins licensing others say Perkins made these. I'm not sure which to believe? Then again does it matter?

One other observation when we hit 8.9/ 9knots (GPS) it seemed like that was the top end regardless of rpm is this a function of the displacement hull?

Bill
 
"Thanks Smitty, the Perkins engine guide that came with the boat recommends a top rpm of 3000 for the 4-154 engine."

And I would agree with that 100% and say that is a perfect practice. At the same time checking a diesel for highest rpm (WOT) under a full load for a brief period of time is a great practice to assure you are not over propped. You are not and that us great because being overpropped can kill your performance and waste your engine very early in its life.
The hull and weight of your trawler combined with the lower displacement diesels are set up for good mileage and overall use in the lower hull speed ranges. Your ability to reach 6 knots ore so while only needing 30 or less hp top get there means you can cruise at low hp ranges (even on one engine) and get good fuel range. As your speed increases above that level your boats demand for hp to reach the higher speeds will go up very fast. I would guess that even at 8 knots you may be getting half the mileage you would see at 6 knots.
The point being that any boat can work fine underpropped but not overpropped and your boat here is a perfect example of one that has absolutely no reason to be propped for a max rpm speed at all - reasonable under propping on this boat will allow good cruise speeds even if the hull is partially fouled and the boat is heavily weighted on a hot and humid day.
All sounds good so far - hope this helps
 
Billy I'm happy to hear things are looking good I know how excited you are about this boat!
 
Smitty thanks I agree with you and PDCat Bruce. Thanks for the advice. I'm certainly not over propped.
This is probably why these engines still run like they were new.
Dave, thanks she's a slow boat but she is exactly what I'm looking for.
We did try cruising with the boat on one engine it handled very well on one engine. Neither side changed the way the boat handled when only using one side or the other for thrust or forward motion.
Bill
 
Yes speed is limited by hull shape, length and displacement. Your boat can not plane but it can raise the bow a bit and dig a big hoe in the water that it tries to rise above but cant regardless of power.

At highest speed you will see a bow and stern wave with the boat in a hole in the middle. That is your maximum speed often called hull speed and absolutely, terribly inefficient. Best efficiency will be where little wake is made and the stern is seen to slip smoothly through the water. Probably 5 knots of so.

It is good that the boat performs well on one engine but the power, fuel, to move it at any speed is largely independent of the number of engines, ignoring prop drag. What you save with one engine is the overhead power required to run the engine itself which is much less with diesels than gas because they run unthrottled, not pumping wasted vacuum. With bigger engines there is more overhead power consumed.

I looked through that PDF showing the great maintenance handbook but could not find any power curves indicating what happens above 3000 RPM and if there was any uprating possible. Remember engines out of gear will spin up to therir governed RPM. Under load the speed is are power limited. The difference is fuel, more fuel more power and more RPM possible .
 
My Hatteras has all copper lines and they are in great shape 33 years old, handle the high pressure of the big shallow well pump with no issues. It would never ever have occurred to me even think about replacing them.
 
quote:
Originally posted by caltexfla

My Hatteras has all copper lines and they are in great shape 33 years old, handle the high pressure of the big shallow well pump with no issues. It would never ever have occurred to me even think about replacing them.

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George thanks for talking some sense into me. I certainly don't need to be wasting money on a system that obviously worked for the 2 previous owners.
I'm leaving it alone for now.
Again I mean it thanks,
Bill
 
quote:
Originally posted by pdecat

Yes speed is limited by hull shape, length and displacement. Your boat can not plane but it can raise the bow a bit and dig a big hoe in the water that it tries to rise above but cant regardless of power.

At highest speed you will see a bow and stern wave with the boat in a hole in the middle. That is your maximum speed often called hull speed and absolutely, terribly inefficient. Best efficiency will be where little wake is made and the stern is seen to slip smoothly through the water. Probably 5 knots of so.

It is good that the boat performs well on one engine but the power, fuel, to move it at any speed is largely independent of the number of engines, ignoring prop drag. What you save with one engine is the overhead power required to run the engine itself which is much less with diesels than gas because they run unthrottled, not pumping wasted vacuum. With bigger engines there is more overhead power consumed.

I looked through that PDF showing the great maintenance handbook but could not find any power curves indicating what happens above 3000 RPM and if there was any uprating possible. Remember engines out of gear will spin up to therir governed RPM. Under load the speed is are power limited. The difference is fuel, more fuel more power and more RPM possible .

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I just read a great Tony Athens article on using diesels well below the power curve. He's never heard of a NA diesel being hurt by running them gracefully or no where near the peg. He claims his own observations are that any NA diesels run well below rated rpms will add longevity or thousands of hours to their life. He is well respected, I respect him and I intend to run the boat between 2000 to 2200 rpms this seemed to be the sweet spot. This boat will never be a fast boat and I am buying it knowing that its intended use matches my use. Now there maybe times where I will need more rpms depending on the tide and wind so I know the engines can easily do this in their current state/ condition.
I just found out the Westerbeke has a 50 amp DC alternator on it as well. Hopefully the generator will be a fairly quick repair. I like having 50 amps (DC) at 1800rpm along with 8kw of AC power from a common plant.
Bill
 
Tony did warn that some diesels will sweat he recommends if they do that to make sure to run them up to temperature to keep the oil free of condensation. He mentions this can be accomplished with short bursts of power and watching the temperature gauges.
Bill
 
I know Tony, he really knows diesels and how to keep them happy. He will tell you that as long as they get to170- 180 they will be happy. Nothing's wrong with a little full load now and then but I think for four stroke NA engines as long as they run at proper temps it is unnecessary. You won't be running 500 hp engines at idle loads you will be operating at mid load.
 
Depending on what the proper exponent is at 2200 RPM you will be producing between 24 - 28 HP per engine. IMO that is more than enough to push that boat as fast as it will reasonable go.
Now just for fun I'll stick my neck out and guess that will give about 1.25 GPH fuel burn each or 2.5 total. If that produces 7 knots that yields.... ill leave the NMPG estimate you you.... you will be happy.
:)

62HP((22/30)^2.5)=28HP

62HP((22/30)^2.53)= 24.5HP
 
quote:
Originally posted by pdecat

Depending on what the proper exponent is at 2200 RPM you will be producing between 24 - 28 HP per engine. IMO that is more than enough to push that boat as fast as it will reasonable go.
Now just for fun I'll stick my neck out and guess that will give about 1.25 GPH fuel burn each or 2.5 total. If that produces 7 knots that yields.... ill leave the NMPG estimate you you.... you will be happy.
:)

62HP((22/30)^2.5)=28HP

62HP((22/30)^2.53)= 24.5HP

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I think you nailed it Bruce. I looked at some fuel logs the owners had in the vessel your close. Here's the killer the Westerbeke in it's current configuration can burn .9 gallons an hour. I doubt I will need to do too much running with the genset, except during hot days where I'm not at the upper helm and sipping my iced tea from the lower helm in the comfort of air conditioning.
This boats looking better by the minute to my wife and I. It looks like a perfect match once I add the creature comforts and electronics I have grown accustomed to. Even then I'm not going to overdo it!
Bill
 
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