My first run in with police on the water!

My point is, you did nothing wrong so you are not "lucky".
It's great that you have a flexible schedule and can be so chill about this.

Anyway, all's well that ends well.
 
Yeah, the first date was a concern but that concern went away.
After that, the judge was very nice and let me pick the next 2 dates.

Another thing that is interesting is just sitting there and watching the whole process.
You learn alot about what is wrong with this country and our legal system and people in power and how things work.
If you have never been in a court, I recommend it. Anyone can go. No need to have a case.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Joeshoes

Yep you do not have to be an overpaid professional black athlete to be abused by these 3rd rate cops.. Jimmy Breslin said it best 40 years ago "A cop is a third string high school athlete who, after a stint in the Marine Corp, cannot get a job paying more for doing less."

Everyone has an "abuse of power" story and they ain't pretty. ..... From one whose father was a NYC cop.

Let the flames begin...

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I disagree. Most LEO’s are decent people that are on the job for the right reason - and most also have little tolerance for those that personalize enforcement decisions. “He/she didn’t bend the knee, so I wrote the V” is an unpopular attitude nowadays. As we see in the OP of this thread, though, it is not yet extinct. I, and every other colleague I respect in a training and/or supervisory position will continue trying to train that out of people, but the antiquated attitudes of enforcement option decision making where personal feelings and ego play even the SLIGHTEST role unfortunately still persist. The only personal feelings that should enter that decision process is “do I feel that compliance will be reasonably attained” with the intended action. Writing a bunch of “add-ons” (those violations that are almost always there but nobody ever writes unless they help paint a bigger picture, like the improper display of state numbers on probably 85% of boats) because somebody is a jerk to an officer is abusing authority. It may be perceived as a minor thing, and some would even call it justified, but it never is, no matter how minor. Now - adding them up because the operator makes it plain he does NOT get the point and gives no indication of intended compliance - absolutely. That is the idea behind penalties - to compel compliance with laws and regulations. Nothing wrong with properly enforcing them. But not to avenge hurt feelings.

(Edited for clarity and to remove an unintended slight)
 
I think it is like everything and everyone else. There are those who are good and those who are a-holes. Unfortunately in our system to deal with the a-holes requires time and money. Most people like CurrentSea have more valuable things to do with their time so they just swallow the bile and deal with it. What is important is to "grieve it later". Another words, don't get in an argument with the officer. Take your grievance to court and let the court do the rebuking. I had a case about 8 years ago, and while I was convicted in a traffic court, when I took it to Superior Court the officer knew he was cooked and it was all dropped. Message sent.
 
quote:
Originally posted by WALSHIE

My point is, you did nothing wrong so you are not "lucky".
It's great that you have a flexible schedule and can be so chill about this.

Anyway, all's well that ends well.

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You’d have to read all of my posts in this thread to put my use of the word “lucky” in proper context.
How was he “lucky”?
Because I wasn’t there and don’t know enough about it, I’m not making any sort of judgement call on the initial interaction between him and the officer that issued the summons so my use of the word “lucky” has nothing to do with that.
Nor am I voicing any opinion on whether or not the summons should have been issued.
That horse had left the barn before this thread had started.
I’ve never met Dave but have read his posts over the years. Based on that, I suspect he is a nice guy, and a competent law abiding boater who would never intentionally do anything dangerous or illegal in the water.
I have no opinions about the Officer or his actions during this interaction at all.
IMHO which is based on my experience and strictly limited in this instance to the ongoing court case: Dave was “lucky” in that he went to court without representation and if all goes as he thinks it will he will have only had to take the course and not pay a big fine or suffer any other penalty that may adversely impact his insurance for the next few years. He is “lucky” that he has the time to take to make the appearances without loss of pay.
He was “lucky” because things could have gone a lot worse for him without representation.
 
JVM, In all due respect, Dave had a cop, that was a prick, *******, and just a f-ng maroon. The problem here is why the F should he have to hire an attorney to show the court he was right and the cop was wrong?? The system is rigged, the cops know that and hence the working man cannot afford to pay all this money for attorneys and time off. Stop defending a ******* cop. I do agree, most cops are good, but this guy was a total dick!! Dave was very passive in this and the cop took full advantage of that. Now me, I would want records that he was transporting an injured person to get him to an ambulance on shore, I bet that was BS since Dave saw no one and he spent 15 minutes or so jerking Dave's chain. So when the day would be done, I know the cop was full of Sh$t and would sue that prick!
 
I had a run-in with the police this year too. In South NJ where I was towing a tube with my kids. There were two cops in the boat and I saw them earlier go up river. When they came back some 30 minutes later, they slowed and I knew they were going to say something. I had already mentally checked everything - PFD's, running lights, everyone seated who was not in the tube, lookout facing stern, registration at the ready. Sure enough, he lit up the light and came to my port side. He asked if I had a dive flag and I said "no" (the truth). He then went on to tell me that even though I didn't have divers, I needed a red dive flag hung on the boat to tow a tube. I asked him if he wanted to board me to check my extinguishers and lights and he declined. I asked him if he wanted me to leave and he said "no, just get it for next time". So when I got home I checked. Sure enough, I should have a red flag in NJ. So I blew the $15 or so to get one for next year. So my experience was a good one this time. I had a bad one many years ago where some douchebag cop yelled at me for my wake when I was going with the tide at minimum speed. I even called his superior the next day to complain, but I got nowhere with that. I didn't get a ticket, but it was still was annoying. Wouldn't it be ironic if it was the same cop this year!
 
A dive flag while towing a tube? That seems strange. I was always taught your dive flag should only be used when divers were in the water.

Padraig
 
Not a 'Dive flag' (red square w/ white diagonal stripe), but an orange triangular pennant - from the NJ Boating Safety Manual, under Waterskiing -

7. All ski boats shall display a signal pennant which shall be orange
in color and triangular in shape and not less than 12 inches in any
dimension.
8. The pennant shall be displayed at least four feet above the highest
structure on the boat during each of the following activities;
A. While pulling or retrieving a skier
B. While a skier is in the water; or
C. While a tow line is in the water.
9. A person shall not display the pennant at any other time other than
while conducting any of the activities described above in #8.
 
quote:
Originally posted by walterv

JVM, In all due respect, Dave had a cop, that was a prick, *******, and just a f-ng maroon. The problem here is why the F should he have to hire an attorney to show the court he was right and the cop was wrong?? The system is rigged, the cops know that and hence the working man cannot afford to pay all this money for attorneys and time off. Stop defending a ******* cop. I do agree, most cops are good, but this guy was a total dick!! Dave was very passive in this and the cop took full advantage of that. Now me, I would want records that he was transporting an injured person to get him to an ambulance on shore, I bet that was BS since Dave saw no one and he spent 15 minutes or so jerking Dave's chain. So when the day would be done, I know the cop was full of Sh$t and would sue that prick!

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Walter, you are dead wrong here.
I’ve been reading your posts in this forum for a number of years now and generally find them to be well thought out and valuable, but you are way off base here and your anger towards my comments is misguided.
Again, please read my posts in this thread carefully before getting hot under the collar about my perceived defense of the officer and point out where you see that I’ve done so..
In fact, feel free to quote in context anything you find, and if I’m mistaken I’ll be quick to apologize and clarify.
I haven’t defended the cop or his actions with regards to the issuance of the summons at all. In fact, since I wasn’t there, I’ve refrained from making a judgement about the interaction on the water that day completely. If anything, if you read my comments, other than clarifying the legality of the Officer holding on to the driver license until he returned, I’ve gone out of my way to remain neutral with regards to the summons.
You may have mistaken my neutrality as an indictment of Dave because I haven’t taken his side either in the interaction between him and the officer and the issuance of the summons. If so, you are dead wrong.
Again, I wasn’t there.
Completely separate issue: the court process.
I did recommend that Dave hire a Lawyer to protect himself in the court system with regards to the summons. That’s is in no way a defense of the officer or his actions. It’s a separate issue. In fact, I offered that advise solely to see him protect himself. Not to defend the court system. I think that was pretty clear in all of my comments.
Dave chose not to hire a Lawyer, and while I don’t agree with that decision in general and would have rathered pay the $700 myself, I see his point of view and I’m glad that he didn’t lose money from work and seems okay with having to take the course.
I’m especially glad that the penalty wasn’t worse because I still believe it is dangerous to represent yourself in these things regardless of guilt or innocence.
 
One of my favorite radio shows is "Handel On The Law" out of Los Angeles. The show's slogan, "Marginal Legal Advice, where I tell you that you have no case"
The situation here is described multiple times on the show. As Bill Handel says, "Hey, you got screwed, you want justice? Pay up". As he said the other day, you can pay or you can just say you got screwed and get on with your life. But, at least in America you can get justice. That is so true.

I've been in places and situations where that is not true. I had to escort one of my passengers, a Guatemalan Indian out of Guatemala City airport one night when the authorities were getting ready to put him down some rat hole, where he would die or be killed, just because he was an Indian. As they were hassling him, I put my arm around him, said "Hey Amigo" and walked him out of there and into a cab where I gave the cab driver 20 bucks and said take him anywhere he wants to go. They did not interfere with me because I am "American El Hefe" and with that, I had all the authority in the world. I've been in Africa where I saw a man dumped out of a wheel chair and a rifle barrel put to his head because he greeted us at the hotel entrance. I've paid 5000 dollars to a Mexican Airport Commandante just to get my airplane back because he claimed there was something wrong with my paper work (there always is something wrong with your paper work in Mexico). I am regularly and without any suspicion breathalyzed before my passengers in Amsterdam. I'v had my cell phone "searched" for no reason (other than to see if I had any porno on it) whatsoever in Dubai.

Point is this. Yeah it sucked, but no one got hurt, justice could be had if you wanted it. As Bill Handel says, suck it up and if you want justice go get it if you think the price is worth it. It can be had in America, other places, not so much.
 
JVM,
My anger is not with you or your post, but this particular cop. Your posts have always been fair and balanced, as I hope you have seen mine are. This cop was a prick, and to spend money to defend something that you did not do just pisses me off!!! That is the anger!!!
 
quote:
Originally posted by walterv

JVM,
My anger is not with you or your post, but this particular cop. Your posts have always been fair and balanced, as I hope you have seen mine are. This cop was a prick, and to spend money to defend something that you did not do just pisses me off!!! That is the anger!!!

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After seeing my handle at the beginning of your post (“JVM, In all due respect”) and reading the line in the middle of it directing “Stop defending a ******* cop” I must have misunderstood. If so, I apologize.
 
If I thought for a second that my ability to operate a boat or that this could affect my ability to get my Captains's license some day, then I would of hired an attorney. I never thought that was the case, until the last meeting when the smartass DA said it could result in my revocation of my ability to operate a boat. If he would of pursued that, then I would of asked for a postponement so I could get an attorney!

I have treated this as a joke since day 1 and it is and still is.
Therefore, I am handling it on my own without an attorney.

Hopefully the next meeting is the end and this is done and lesson learned by a bunch of us.
 
With all the crime on LI you have to question the DA's priority spending time on this stuff.
 
I found away to mentally except this situation that Dave is in and all you have to do is look at in a different way. And that way is look at all the dumb stuff I have done that I could have gotten a ticket for and got away with it. I am way ahead of the game.
Al
 
quote:
Originally posted by pdecat

With all the crime on LI you have to question the DA's priority spending time on this stuff.

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Long Island is not a crime capital. I beg to differ with this comment. We have pockets of bad neighborhoods but very low crime rates. Most of the cases I see in court are related to driving without license, petty larceny, etc.
 
I have my own experience with law enforcement on th the water. Several years ago my wife, 2 daughters (age 10-6) were on a local lake midweek, there were 2 boats on the lake. Boat #1 was us and boat #2 was the local sheriffs marine patrol. My wife was skiing, daughters were wearing life jackets, we were enjoying the day.. I noticed the Sheriff boat overtaking me with blue lights on, waving me to stop. Hmm, what could he want. He wanted to cite me for not having a qualified observer! I told Home my 10 year old daughter was the observer, he said “she is not old enough, she must be over 12”. News to be as the regulation said “ qualified observer”being she had been skiing since she was 5 years old in my opinion she was more than qualified. The officer disagreed, said she must be over 12 years old, I asked if he could show me that in writing somewhere, he was not sure. I pointed out to hi. ThT we were the only ones on the water ( the reason we use the boat mid week),I also asked how many times on a busy weekend he saw boats with “qualified observers” doing anything but observing. I told him that when I told my daughter to “watch your Mama, that’s what she did. After some thought and a safety check he agreed. All ended up being well, but he was aggressive at first.
 
Case Dismissed!
Lost 3 more hours sitting there but DA looked at boater safety certificate and dismissed it!
 
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